The Overview and Scrutiny Committee meeting has started at County Hall
Please refresh your browser to see the latest updates. We will endeavour to report presentations and discussions as accurately as possible. Text surrounded by ** and () signifies comments. [18:18]Just arrived. Mobile phone masts call in. Cllr Chris Welsford coming to the end of his speech.
Cllr Bacon: There are two sides to this argument. One being death. When this is case, lawyers get excited.
The council needs to concerned about the possible cost of this and mitigate against it. Understand that insurance is hard to come bay.
Cllr Barry: I was a Cllr when original decision was made. What there is to gain is so small, is it worth the risk for this?
Schools are the biggest concern. Children can’t get away from it.
Equating it to thalidomide and asbestos. People not being worried at the time, but it becoming a clear threat after.
[18:26] Update 1
There’s still a great fear of mobile phone masts with the Public.
Cllr Ward: It was 9.5 years ago that orig decision was made. Nothing has come up heath wise since then.
Cllr Bingham: Mobile phones has emissions 1000x stronger than a base station. We issue those to council workers.
Cllr Welsford: mentioning Electro Smog in a Swiss Re report (reinsurer). Science and what happens in court are two different things. It’s the court cases that we need to worry about.
I think Swiss Re are saying look to the future.
Cllr Ward: One things that trouble me – if we say that we won’t have mobile masts on our buildings, how can we entertain planning applications and pass them? Double standards might be called.
What about the economy of the Island. These days everything is in the airwaves. Can we afford to fall behind the rest of the world?
We have a degree of isolation from the mainland. We should be using the Internet, 3G, etc.
Making a ‘Luddite’ decision could concern me.
Cllr Welsford: We should be taking what insurers are saying very serious. I don’t know what the liability would be for a private land owner.
Cllr Wyatt-Millington : Having had my background in electronics. I can talk on this. If there is a risk it will be 100-150m away from aerial. Is the liability with the council or the mobile phone operator?
Cllr Welsford: We don’t have evidence one way or another.
Cllr Wyatt-Millington: How long do we wait then? 10 years, 20 years?
Cllr Welsford: The decision has been made without making a proper investigation into these things.
Cllr Barry: There is no clarification in what had been decided, saying that they won’t be on school, as Cllr Bingham has just said.
Cllr Ward: It does say in the detail of the doc it does say that schools will be excluded.
Cllr Barry: It was about the lifting of the moratorium, not which buildings which were covered
[18:33] Update 2
Cllr Bacon: It’s clear law that if you allow dangerous things onto your land, you are responsible. Risk must be looked at because there is a risk of litigation. I don’t believe that has been done.
Cllr Ward: Are we are more risk than every other building.
Cllr Bacon: I think possibly, because we (the council) has money
Cllr Bingham: We’re pretty sure that we covered by our insurance for up to £50m cover
Cllr Welsford: What does our insurance cover us for? We need to know if it’s electomagnetic radiation. We also need to check that the insurer has the cover of their re-insurer.
[18:42] Update 3
Cllr Bingham: I’m quite happy to check with our insurer that we are insured.
(some discussion about procedural finery)
Cllr Welsford: I’m not happy with what’s happening here.
(a councillor in the audience – you’re being pushed into something)
Chief Exec, Steve Beynon: The scrutiny board isn’t a decision making body.
Cllr Bacon: Could the council be assured, or see information that proves that we are covered?
Cllr Ward: Asking to see the insurance is impractical.
Chief Exec, Steve Beynon: That’s quite a reasonable thing to ask for.
Cllr Ward : I refer to the cabinet member on this.
Five/five vote – casting vote (Cllr Ward as chair). The objection is voted down.
[18:51] Update 4
Next item – Buses
Cllr Bacon: There’s been errors on both sides. Officers & Councillors. We intended to have this as a call in, but some confusion on which date it should have been done by.
(Concessionary Bus Fare)
There are a great deal of decisions that are being made by cabinet, not at full council. There needs to be a confidence in the openness of how the decision are made at cabinet level.
17 November decision was made. The IW Bus Users Group were informed of the intended decision on the 10th and sent a lengthy email on 16th. This didn’t receive any reply – and no evidence that they were considered in the making of the decision.
[19:59] Update 5
Major points by Bus Users Group were …
– Much thinking seemed to be drawn from mainland policy, whereas it’s different on the Island.
– it seem no account was made that people could change from an over 60s bus pass to disabled. So projected saving might not be made.
– Island Line was only given one weeks notice – so couldn’t prepare a response in time.
– Medical appointments can only be made later, say post 10:30am
I’m not sure what can happen as this now isn’t a formal call-in.
The lack of response to the Bus User Group, or apparent lack of consideration of them is a concern. We should make sure this doesn’t happen again.
Cllr Webster: Lots of people have told be that they don’t want to leave the house before 9:30am.
Cllr Ward: Perhaps IWC made a rod for their own back by going above and beyond. As the government hasn’t funded this properly, we need to draw it back now.
Cllr Giles: I had met with the Bus Users Group (BUG) at the end of October. At the Cabinet meeting, I said that we had received the BUG email
The scheme, even in it’s reduced form is in excess of what is required nationally.
Island line covered. Disabled too. I didn’t receive any representation on the before the vote.
Cllr Churchman: I did attend the Cabinet meeting and raised the point about dental and medial appointments.
Cllr Giles: NHS has had Book and Choose for over a year now.
Cllr Bacon: I’m not asking for justification, but for the procedure to be looked at. Chair of BUG wrote to me on 26 Nov, he had no idea whether the BUG correspondence had been received.
Cllr Giles: We did consult with BUG (in a meeting) before and after the decision.
That’s ended now.
[19:10] Update 6
(Dave Burbage now presenting Medium Term Financial Strategy).
Our aim is to have the council fit within our means.
68% comes from Government. If they cut back, it will have a big impact. Business rate is set by government.
Fall in income – £2.5 down in fees (planning etc). Used to earn £2m/year in interest (at about 5%), now at about £150k, in broad terms £10m off. Government has indicated that council tax will be limited to 3% next year. (there’s a lot of talk of government grants being renamed and shifted)
£7.6m set aside for getting prepared for PFI.
[19:20] Update 7
Projected deficit of £5.15m next year. That would mean the council tax going to about 9-10% – but can’t happen.
“Things are fairly healthy, but could turn to difficult if we over spend this year.”
Southern Vectis has gone to appeal on the Concessionary fares scheme, of £135m – 45% is staffing costs.
Would have to lose 200 posts if projections correct (this is looking as possibilities).
[19:29] Update 8
How money can be saved – raising fees, reducing or cutting services. One upside of the recession (if you can call it that), projected costs are reducing. Need to think about affordability of student rider. Closing theatre. Over next three years, projecting a gap of £12m
All deliverable and doable. Some of the money from government might reduce – this will add extra pressures, as it’s assumed that it will be flat.
Cllr Barry: Is any of the money that is spent preparing the PFI recoverable?
Dave Burbage (head of finance): (I think he said no)
(Got to say that Dave Burbage comes across well)
[19:44] Update 9
Cllr Webster: Floating Bridge. Are you putting money aside to buy a new one? As it’s coming to the end of it’s life.
Dave Burbage: We’d have to plan for the spending.
Cllr Churchman: Poss putting up parking charges. There must be a fine line between keeping villages vibrant or pushing them to Tesco, etc
Burbage: Impact of decisions will need to be made by the Cabinet. There’s a report coming in December.
Cllr Churchman: I see that some councils around the country are removing charges to encourage local shopping.
Procurements savings. How will these be made?
Burbage: joining up departments, possibly doing it with other agencies (NHS), IT supplies, better contracts.
Cllr Churchman: All very well getting cheaper suppliers, but these might be off Island.
Burbage: Tended docs will cover impact on the Economy. Even if it does go off Island, many of those companies will use local sub-contractors.
Cllr Churchman: You mentioned saving not delivered. Which were these?
Burbage: We aimed for a saving of £9m, quite ambitious. “In the past we’ve not been good at delivering at everything that we’ve set.”
Cllr Bacon: You used the phrase ambition saving target. Is that saying it was unrealistic?
Burbage: It was hard to achieve. There will be a range of reasons as to why things aren’t achieved. There are some issues around the waste contract. If they over perform we pay and apparently the same if they under perform.
In 2001 the contact was extended to 2015.
[20:00] Update 10
Cllr Barry: Why have we spent so much on Green Island Project.
Chief Exec: There was never a budget for Green Island (so it looks like over spend). We’ve made the employees redundant. Costs have been covered over to this year.
[20:03] Quarterly performance and risk performance
Cllr ??: How can anyone let a school get £1m in debt?
Cllr Pugh: leadership has been a problem.
Chief Exec: Seeds were sown five years ago with top heavy management. Drop off of pupil numbers. Big problem 75% of funding is down to number of pupils at school (Ryde high school).
Sandown is now the lowest performing school on the Island.
Debt is being significantly reduced
[20:13] Update 11
Cllr Ward: Surprised that FOI numbers are so high. Is that just because we don’t answer the questions in the first place?
Chief Exec: We have a high percentage of enquiries. People are asking for documents, not simple questions.
–On to Forward plan
Chale – Federation with Rural school – Advice of officer – not a likely solution. Going to Pugh as a Delegated decision
No questions
–END
