eu scrabble

Letter: EU referendum – what’s in it for the Isle of Wight?

We always welcome a Letter to the Editor to share with our readers – unsurprisingly they don’t always reflect the views of this publication. If you have something you’d like to share, get in touch and of course, your considered comments are welcome below. This from Darcy. Ed


I have not yet decided whether to vote yes or no in next month’s EU referendum. I am sick to death with ill-informed scare stories emanating from both sides of the argument.

I am particularly unimpressed by the daily pressure piled on by representatives from the establishment, whether through political, financial and commercial institutions, or by pressure groups with their own agenda or prejudices.

What’s in it for the Island?
As an Isle of Wight resident I have one key question: What’s in it for the Island?

The only reference I can find to Isle of Wight European Union funding is one of £150,000 through the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) and awarded last year for rural businesses on the Isle of Wight to help them develop and grow and help farms to diversify.

Now £150k for an entire struggling county seems very small fry and does not address the key island issues of infrastructure underdevelopment, tourism, enterprise development, public transport and improved access to the Island.

Will the Island be better off in or out?
Can anyone enlighten me and convince me that the Island is or will be better off through UK membership of The EU?

Are we getting our fair share of the funds returned by Brussels.

Or is there a better way to improve the Island economy?

Image: jeffdjevdet under CC BY 2.0

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Vix Lowthion
24, May 2016 7:30 pm

Good question. I wouldn’t use the fact we have technically only received £150,000 from an EU pot as evidence that the EU doesn’t care about the island. I am certain that there are plenty of pots our island is entitled to gain from, but they need applying for. With a council who employs no one to make bids for funding on its behalf, and a committed euro-sceptic… Read more »

Luisa Hillard
24, May 2016 8:12 pm

To be fair the Island could have received more, if it was applied for. It is my understanding that the previous Conservative Council distanced themselves from Europe and stopped applying. The current Independent Council still doesn’t have any one member of staff responsible for grant funding applications but has applied for (or been involved with) a few different grant-funded projects. A couple in the pipeline at the… Read more »

the shadow
Reply to  Luisa Hillard
24, May 2016 11:09 pm

Luisa Hillard’s as a member of the ruling party you have had 3 years to have a councilor to be in charge of grant funding etc to be frank why now why not 3 years ago oh election less than a year springs to mind

Luisa Hillard
Reply to  the shadow
25, May 2016 9:24 am

Shadow, Please re-read my comment. What I said was that there is not a dedicated officer. Grant funding bids have still occurred and I have been involved with many.

dave
Reply to  Luisa Hillard
25, May 2016 10:01 am

Obviously without much success!

Black Dog
Reply to  Luisa Hillard
25, May 2016 11:03 am

More of the same stuff “Not our Fault” With regards to the funding from the SLEP you have to review your representation/representative on and to the LEP before blaming everyone else

phil jordan
Reply to  Black Dog
30, May 2016 12:18 pm

black dog: Interesting that the SLEP *refused* to allow our them Leader, Cllr Stephens, to remain on the Board of the SLEP after he stepped down as Leader. We were actually threatened (!) with removal of our membership if we insisted and an internal Board vote duly removed him from that role instead appointing Cllr Bacon. [bearing in mind that the previous administration were NOT members of… Read more »

DebbieUptheRoad
Reply to  Luisa Hillard
30, May 2016 10:24 am

What short memories you all have ! The IW has received MILLIONS from the EU. The names of the projects have varied over the years, but I’m sure some of you will recognise SRB, European Social Fund, Challenge Fund Support, Leader Plus, as well as the various farming subsidies. Our own Ventnor Harbour received 1.3M & if memory serves me right, there have been other IW coastal… Read more »

phil jordan
Reply to  DebbieUptheRoad
30, May 2016 12:07 pm

DutR:

..the works to the Duver seawall were also partially and substantially funded by an EU grant (secured through our coastal management team – working out of Ventnor Coastal centre – at the time and led BY Prof. Robin Mcginnes).

Cicero
Reply to  DebbieUptheRoad
30, May 2016 1:15 pm

DutR “Details of individual Island specific farming suubsidies worth more millions (up to 2014) can be found here –(link)

And the CLA local and national are fervent supporters of the Remain campaign…. strange that? :-))

Tim
24, May 2016 8:36 pm

A trifling £ 150,000 or £ 1 per person as it approximately is will have no real overall impact. What we need from the EU is for them to either fund a fixed link or fund taking over and running the ferries and as a community asset. Either option would really benefit the island, our taxes have been used across Europe to fund other infrastructure projects, it… Read more »

nbelfitt
24, May 2016 9:03 pm

I think it can be hard to see sometimes what the EU does or at least has done. As you mention you have only found £150,000 that is awarded through programs. I agree as others have said already that the council in the past has distance themselves from European funding. But other groups have not such as the Solent Enterprise Partnership which has taken EU funding and… Read more »

Luisa Hillard
Reply to  nbelfitt
24, May 2016 9:28 pm

nbelfitt, I really like your comment.

VentnorLad
24, May 2016 9:04 pm

So apart from increased security, maternity leave, the working time directive, safer & cheaper travel, access to a wider market, abolition of mobile roaming charges, consumer rights and greater influence in the world…

…what has the EU ever done for us?

Steve Goodman
Reply to  VentnorLad
24, May 2016 9:19 pm

(Through an expensive and inefficient agency set up by our government), subsidised our farmers each year for a long time now?

That’s made a big difference to at least one of our best Island farms (positively from the payment, and negatively from the government’s needless delay).

Luisa Hillard
Reply to  VentnorLad
24, May 2016 9:43 pm

Easy for people to overlook the good stuff when they didn’t know about it in the first place.

the shadow
Reply to  Luisa Hillard
25, May 2016 10:36 am

what the new waste contract dont make me laugh

Luisa Hillard
Reply to  the shadow
25, May 2016 10:42 am

We are discussing the EU. Not the Council.

Black Dog
Reply to  Luisa Hillard
25, May 2016 10:57 am

Are you suggesting that EU directives had no part to play in this contract? Or are you saving that particular scape goat for another time?

phil jordan
Reply to  Luisa Hillard
30, May 2016 12:20 pm

Black Dog:

The EU procurement legislation is very much part of the process of any public tender…. very, very much so.

ThomasC
Reply to  VentnorLad
24, May 2016 9:50 pm

You forgot about the environmental protection and forcing the UK to remove lead from petrol (there’s more, much more).

but apart from THAT….

ThomasC
24, May 2016 10:17 pm

So ‘what has the EU ever done for the IW?’ Without doing too much research: Common Fisheries Policy – divisive, but a larger body managing fish stocks, with greater accountability is probably reducing the extent of the destruction of European fish stocks and preserving ecosystems around the IW. Common Agricultural Policy – for the last 10-15 years this has ‘greened’ EU agriculture – encouraging biodiversity and enlarging… Read more »

Luisa Hillard
Reply to  ThomasC
24, May 2016 10:46 pm

Well said!

Cicero
Reply to  ThomasC
25, May 2016 11:11 am

(THomasC)”What about sewage? It would probably still be being pumped on to the IW’s beaches now, if it weren’t for EU legislation – the UK’s known as the ‘dirty man of Europe’ for many reasons. ” “would”-? Why do you think that Island beaches have lost their Blue Flags? (I advise people not let their dogs (or themselves) swim at Bembridge Point owing to the boat sewage… Read more »

beacher
24, May 2016 10:40 pm

Is there anything else that we can claim that the EU does for us.?? The Remain campaign seem to want you to believe than any European generated beneficial legislation is suddenly going to be repealed…I don’t think so. Or that we are incapable of making our own legislation! You can’t escape the fact that the UK is a nett loser. ( we can argue the amount) we… Read more »

nbelfitt
Reply to  beacher
24, May 2016 11:23 pm

I am sorry but I think your arguments are a bit misinformed. Firstly we are not a net loser. We pay into the EU and what we get back in terms of trade, access to the single market, political representation in the EU, and individual rights (including all the benefits of the free movement) is what we get back. Surely that cost out ways the small finacial… Read more »

Cicero
Reply to  nbelfitt
25, May 2016 8:41 am

(Nick) ” the only time it can be overuled is when the Council of the EU (heads of state) push it through with the Commission but this does not normally happen as the Council and Parliament (and unelected EU Commission) tend to work closely.”

….. and when a decision of the (also unelected) ECJ overrules the democratic constitution of a member state.

septua
Reply to  nbelfitt
25, May 2016 9:32 am

This what the preface to the auditors’ report for 2014 says: “The financial year 2014 was the first year of the EU programming period 2014-2020. However, most of the EU’s spending in 2014 was planned during 2007-2013. So, as would be expected, our report highlights similar financial management issues to previous years. For many years now, we have identified persistently high levels of error in EU spending.… Read more »

beacher
24, May 2016 10:41 pm

Whoops. Stay or leave!

ThomasC
Reply to  beacher
24, May 2016 11:03 pm

No one is expecting there to be an acceleration towards a European ‘super-state’ – the UK has loads of opt-outs from all sorts of things anyway, so there’s not really much point trying to scare people about that. As one of the richest nations in Europe (yay us!) the UK was ALWAYS going to have to ‘put in’, but then that’s part of our social responsibility and… Read more »

Tim
Reply to  ThomasC
25, May 2016 7:31 am

All this remain stuff doesn’t bear close scrutiny. To mention just a few items:- Local fish stocks were much higher before we joined – no need to ban Sea Bass fishing. Before we joined we used to trade with and travel to Europe much as we do now. The CAP has discriminated against Pig farmers artificially inflating the price of feed to subsidise rich land owning arable… Read more »

ThomasC
Reply to  Tim
25, May 2016 7:52 am

The remain proposition doesn’t need lies and fabrications, as it has 40 years of evidence and the current situation to work with. Fish stocks in general have declined, so your first point is null and the fisheries policy is extremely and scientifically well-informed, which it is less likely a more politically motivated national policy would be. You seem to be very mistaken on the ‘we used to… Read more »

Cicero
Reply to  ThomasC
25, May 2016 8:19 am

(ThomasC) “The remain proposition doesn’t need lies and fabrications, as it has 40 years of evidence and the current situation to work with.” Well there’s a two-edged PR weapon for you! 40 years ago, I had to abandon dairy farming because of the quota system brought in by CAP to protect French farmers who represented 25% of the French electorate where UK farmers were less than 10%.… Read more »

Tim
Reply to  ThomasC
25, May 2016 8:36 am

Thomas, I have first hand experience of pig farming,the input costs were vastly inflated by the EU CAP cereals policy. i.e. world market price of Barley @ £ 70 tonne, EU intervention price around £ 115 – £ 125 tonne. With no similar support for pig prices I had to compete with foreign producers whose inputs were almost half of mine, and that was on free range… Read more »

Caconym
Reply to  Tim
25, May 2016 8:04 am

The same can be said about the “Brexit” campaign. Take control of our borders, for instance. One thing that will almost certainly happen if we vote to leave is another Scottish referendum. The Scots are, as a block, almost certainly going to vote Remain. That will give Nicola Sturgeon a mandate to call another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK, which she has said she will do.… Read more »

Cicero
Reply to  Caconym
25, May 2016 8:24 am

(Suruk) “The last Scottish referendum was a fairly close call, post Brexit, given the number of Scots who want to remain in the EU, there is a very, very good chance that Scotland will, indeed, vote to leave the UK.”

I have suggested that the UK/Wales/NI should have a parallel referendum asking the question “Should Scotland be ejected from the UK and its MPs from Westminster?”

Tim
Reply to  Caconym
25, May 2016 8:29 am

If we didn’t have to bail out Scotland as well a most of Europe that would be brilliant, we
could then pay the same for our ferry trips as the Scots do for theirs under the RET

dave
Reply to  Caconym
25, May 2016 1:13 pm

If Scotland were to hold another in/out referendum, I think it only fair that we ask England, Wales and Northern Ireland if we want them to stay a part of the UK.

billy builder
25, May 2016 8:11 am

Others in this thead have already commented on many of the direct benefits of EU membership so I will not repeat them. However there are other both macro and micro benefits that effect islanders and the island businesses. The macro benefits are the same for the island as for the rest of the UK, and rubbished by the BRExiters as scare mongering, where as in fact the… Read more »

Cicero
Reply to  billy builder
25, May 2016 8:27 am

(BB) “The macro benefits are the same for the island as for the rest of the UK, and rubbished by the BRExiters as scare mongering, where as in fact the vast majority are based on sober financial and economic modelling.” Believe that and you will believe anything. The data is provided by the Treasury, the models are Treasury models, the staff operating the models are Treasury staff… Read more »

billy builder
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 9:15 am

Cicero, whilst you might believe that the world is flat because someone tells you so, most people with a modicum of intelligence know the world is round. Likewise when the vast magority of economists and finacial experts across the entire world tell you that BRexit would be a disaster for both the UK and the world, then anyone with a modicum of intelligence would pay heed.

Cicero
Reply to  billy builder
25, May 2016 9:44 am

(BB) ” anyone with a modicum of intelligence would pay heed.” …. and those with more than a “modicum of intelligence” would question the statements and the motives behind them. Such as: ECB- run by a Goldman Sachs alumnus whose previous employer risks losing a lot of money if Brexit happens. Hence GS investing money in the Remain campaign. ECB- using 1.3 trillion euros of EU money… Read more »

billy builder
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 11:04 am

Cicero, if it were one financial institution or economist making these observations then I would have some sympathy with your view, but it is the vast majority of very reputable organisations saying the same thing. The only people with a different view are the BRexiters, who say these organisations are talking rubbish, but are unable to provide any support for a BRexit economic case.

Cicero
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 3:57 pm

(BB) “Cicero, it is very easy to rubbish something that doesn’t agree with your prejudices. ” … as I have noticed with your responses! Listen carefully I do not bet until I have all the relevant facts and I distrust the purported “facts” presented by both sides. Only the bookies win with bets. You could help by providing uncontestable evidence that “the worlds assessment of BRexit” is… Read more »

Cicero
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 3:59 pm

…. as they say “if you tried to lay all the world’s economists in a straight line, they would all point in different directions!” :-))

billy builder
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 4:06 pm

Cicero, so you can provide absolutely no evidence to support your rejection of the worlds economists view, but you just know better.

But you want put your money where you mouth is will you !

Cicero
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 4:17 pm

(BB) Fine pls post your evidence that they, are right!

billy builder
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 4:59 pm

Cicero, look at all of the economic assessments that have been published across the world. They are all predicting BRexit to be somewhere between bad and very very bad. You’re quite right of course for not to accept my bet as it would be an absurdly stupid bet, one that is couldn’t loose. But that is exactly the bet that you and everyone else will be making… Read more »

Cicero
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 5:00 pm

(BB) You seem to have a fascination with money bets and an indication of faith in something- I don’t.

(Nice diversionary argument but gets informed debate nowhere.)

For interest, how much did you bet on Goodall’s being elected last year?

billy builder
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 5:01 pm

I must apologise for the typos, my auto correct is having a bad day

Cicero
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 5:04 pm

(BB) “with the exception that it is not just their money they be gambling with but the money and financial future of everyone in the UK”

….. and the world according to those opinions.

Still waiting for you to tell me the benefits of the EU that is costing the UK its political, judicial and soon its security sovereignty.

Cicero
Reply to  Cicero
25, May 2016 5:06 pm

No probs BB- I have been pushing OTW that we should be able to edit comments (with the appropriate safeguards of course) as we can do in other more rigorous quora.

Darcy
Reply to  billy builder
25, May 2016 10:30 am

Billy Builder: I’m not sure whether insulting your detractors contributes significantly to your argument which had been going along nicely. Cicero makes a number of valid and considered points. You have demonstrated my dilemma nicely.

billy builder
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 11:11 am

Darcy, when an individual continually refutes all the evidence of potential financial disaster but provides no evidence to the contrary then I find it difficult to take that person seriously. To say that just about every financial and economic organisation across the world is lying to convince people of the UK to remain in the EU is not really credible.

Cicero
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 11:21 am

Similarly I have challenged BB (or any other Remain supporter) many times to persuade me that the EU will change in line with the promises made to Cameron within the next decade. This is because I would like to ‘Remain”, for the UK’s long-term security. Brussels is a less worse choice than Washington. However, I do not trust the unelected institutions of the EU to comply with… Read more »

Darcy
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 11:29 am

BB: I’m broadly keeping my powder dry at the moment as I’m interested in other people’s views. But it might be worth considering that the cosy global financial cartel that got us all in the mire in 2008 by encouraging irresponsible borrowing are all lining up to retain the EU status quo. That’s why they could be united in terminological inexactitudes. Hardly surprising really. No apology either… Read more »

Black Dog
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 11:45 am

From the hours of TV coverage I have watched I do not think that either side has actually made their point satisfactorily. All I know is that no country has left the EU so if GB decides to leave it will be the first to do so, followed closely by Denmark I believe. We are constantly bombarded with IN/OUT (alleged) statistics all of which are hypothetical. The… Read more »

billy builder
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 11:58 am

Cicero, two points, firstly I do not believe that Cameron achieved any meaningful agreement in his negotiations earlier this year, so no I do not believe they will change anything. However I personally do not belive that the EU is broken, but do firmly believe that the best way to influence the EU is to be at the heart or the organisation not sniping from the sidelines.… Read more »

Cicero
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 1:09 pm

“I do not believe” “I personally do not believe that the EU is broken” “but (I) do firmly believe that the best way to influence the EU is to be at the heart” ” I am absolutely convinced that leaving the EU would be a financial disaster.” (BB) It would be churlish of me to challenge your obviously entrenched beliefs, so I won’t. BTW I don’t believe… Read more »

billy builder
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 1:33 pm

Cicero, my premise is if it isn’t broken don’t fix it. It is interesting however that you don’t take me upon my bet, could it be that you, like me firmly believe that the UK would be worse off following a BRexit decision. (I’m not sure where your 8 billion figure comes from as we are talking about the debt percapita not the total. That 8 billion… Read more »

Cicero
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 2:10 pm

(BB) … or even if the bus is going over the cliff, get of quick?

“So overall we paid in £8.5 billion more than we got back, or £23 million a day. ”
Google fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

That sounds a nice round sum! :-)

billy builder
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 2:26 pm

Cicero, that 8 billion is £125 per head of population each year or a £2.40 per week. The £4300 that the treasury estimate that we will loose is per head of population equating to 275 billion each year.

Cicero
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 2:30 pm

“treasury estimate”?- see my previous comments on the reliability of politicised Treasury data.

Cicero
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 2:44 pm

Black Dog rightly asks “The argument in my opinion is – Did we vote to join the Common Market or a Federal Europe?”

The former – but apparently it seems that we were lied to by Heath in 1972 i.e. “a trading community” (some allege for personal reasons) whom admitted later in 1990 it was the latter i.e. “United States of Europe”.

billy builder
Reply to  Darcy
25, May 2016 3:28 pm

Cicero, it is very easy to rubbish something that doesn’t agree with your prejudices. It is much harder however to provide any evidence of any kind that refutes the the worlds assessment of BRexit. Rather than just rubbishing the treasury figures provide evidence that they are wrong.

Or alternatively put your money where your prejudices are and accept the bet I made earlier.

Darcy
Reply to  Darcy
20, June 2016 10:25 am

@ BB Why do you keep on challenging people to bets that you don’t honour if it doesn’t go your way. I recall taking up your challenge at the election when you said Vix wouldn’t do well. Didn’t receive any acknowledgement or cash then!
All mouth and no trousers methinks!

dave
Reply to  billy builder
25, May 2016 1:16 pm

Obviously Billy Builder has been brain-washed.

Cicero
Reply to  dave
25, May 2016 2:05 pm

Don’t be unkind Dave. He really believes it just as Blair believed in WMDs.

Cicero
25, May 2016 8:46 am

(re Cameron’s “reforms”) Is the Settlement ‘legally binding and irreversible’? It is not a binding EU treaty or EU law in itself. Most legal opinions consider the first part of it, the Decision of Heads of State or Government, to be a binding treaty under international law, largely because the parties to it have declared that they intend it to be legally binding. But even if the… Read more »

Fred Karno
25, May 2016 9:42 am

What about the ‘F’ word – Our Freedom?

Europe has only ever been united under tyranny. Look at history.

Cicero
Reply to  Fred Karno
25, May 2016 9:47 am

Read Todd Huizinga’s “The New Totalitarian Temptation: Global Democracy and the Crisis of Democracy in Europe” (2016)

Luisa Hillard
Reply to  Fred Karno
25, May 2016 9:56 am

Are you feeling Free under a Conservative government, with increasing militarisation of the Police force? increased surveillance? increased taxes? reductions in public services? benefit cuts? zero hour contracts?

Black Dog
Reply to  Luisa Hillard
25, May 2016 12:12 pm

It is my opinion, that these have been enforced upon us as a direct result of the actions of the then LABOUR PM Tony B Liar.

Funny just how selective memory works?

Cicero
Reply to  Fred Karno
25, May 2016 9:58 am

(Fred) Review the Greek cycle of governance and suggest what stage the unelected EU is in at the moment.

1. Monarchy,
2. Kingship,
3. Tyranny,
4. Aristocracy,
5. Oligarchy,
6. Democracy, and
7. Ochlocracy.

I suggest Oligarchy masquerading as a Democracy.

Fred Karno
25, May 2016 10:10 am

Hi Cicero. That seems an accurate summary. I’ve always thought that this country is only a democracy on election days when they want our vote!

Mark Francis
25, May 2016 10:18 am

There seems to be bit of a theme developing with the IOW cocking up the Olympic torch relay because someone forgot (or was it pencilled in sarcastic remarks in the margin?). Many years ago I had my university student grant delayed (remember them?) because there was nobody to process it at County Hall. Anyway the main effect of an ochlocratic (is that a word?) Brexit will be… Read more »

Cicero
25, May 2016 11:01 am

” ochlocratic” = mob rule “student grants” -eh? That was in the halcyon days when education was regarded as a right that benefited the country, rather than the “nice little earner” and social engineering tool it has become over the last decade or so. (I like the UKIP quip! :-)) The danger is that “mob rule” might not be as far away as one would hope. It… Read more »

Black Dog
25, May 2016 11:22 am

The EU (as far as I am concerned) pays our farmers (including IOW farmers) vasts amounts of money to set aside their fields and not grow product. Why? Clearly over production would produce a glut and therefore drive prices down – apparently not good for us. So what is the rational behind this and other policies? Could it be protecting French and German farming industries and the… Read more »

Miss Anne Thropic.
31, May 2016 2:14 pm

You all make me laugh. When are you ever going to get it ? You base your futures and all you stand for on 5 year plans that three years in, when its realised your five year plans never going to be achieved, becomes a three year plan with the next two years trying to make it impossible for the next incumbent to realise their plan because… Read more »

Rod Manley
5, June 2016 5:55 pm

What is conveniently missed out by those who purport to know about funding is the experience gained when applying for Assisted Area Status (AAS), which actually achieved very little for the Isle of Wight. This is the disinformation campaign and big lie technique used by the remainers who would have been proud students of Dr Goebbels. There has been no “millions” afforded the island. Why? Because there… Read more »

billy builder
Reply to  Rod Manley
5, June 2016 6:03 pm

Rod, the EU don’t recognise the isle of wight as an island because the UK government have chosen not to recognise it as an island. If the UK government said it was an island, then the EU would also recognise it as one and appropriate funding would be available. Blame the Westminster government not the EU. The whole country will be significantly worse off if we vite… Read more »

matt
Reply to  billy builder
5, June 2016 7:38 pm

We nearly lost what we could get from AAS because they should have waited for the NUTS review to put the Island’s case.

matt
Reply to  matt
5, June 2016 7:44 pm

But again it was the usual back- slapping suspects.

matt
Reply to  matt
6, June 2016 5:21 am

Confusing the situation at a late stage.Even the MEP/IOWTUC knew you can only get what is in the rules regarding AAS.The Island could have ended up with nothing.

IOWTUC
Reply to  matt
6, June 2016 4:02 pm

Having being involved in this(AAS)for the Island.The IOWTUC knew this could happen and advised caution.

mat
5, June 2016 6:56 pm

Neither side has made any economic argument either way. Trade is trade and exists in or out of the EU. Competition is put forward as an ‘economic solution’ but Trade blocs and trade barriers and trade wars do not solve this problem only exacerbate an underlying economic argument. All free trade agreements are exclusive and detrimental to somebody. Capitalist competition or co-operation? In terms of political economy… Read more »

mat
6, June 2016 10:45 am

The EU means war and to leave it means the possibility of Anti-war Government. Already the EU with Britain and NATO are putting boots on the ground in Syria. They are putting boots on the ground in Libya. The EU is provoking war once more in Ukraine. They have the ambition of Napoleon to take on Russia. Being part of the EU and NATO means Britain will… Read more »

m coakley
6, June 2016 2:32 pm

As an historian I am aware that most if not all members of the EU have been subject to totalitarian forms of governments in the past two hundred years. Ours is a fragile democracy but a democracy all the same. Looking at the formation of what is now the EU, it is on record that the US was the prime mover. Jean Monet lived for a great… Read more »

Vix Lowthion
6, June 2016 4:16 pm

Economic reasons for me are not the only reason to remain – but it is worth considering *why* the UK is the 5th largest economy. And one key reason must be our position as a gateway to the EU economy for external nations such as China, India, USA. It’s not simply a case of being a large enough economy meaning that we don’t need the EU, but… Read more »

m coakley
6, June 2016 9:22 pm

Sorry Vix – take a look at the trading record of the other Eu members, even the major members France, Italy Spain, Portugal Greece with China India and USA, totally abysmal – negative growth rates abound. You cannot justify the UK position by referring to any of the EU members other than Germany. Even they recognise that a UK vote to leave will ultimately result in the… Read more »

billy builder
Reply to  m coakley
17, June 2016 1:09 pm

Darcy, lets be quite clear there are two options in the referendum next Thursday, a vote to remain in the EU or a vote to leave the EU. There is no third way and there will not be a third way. If we vote to leave the EU next Thursday, then to preserve the integrity of the remaining EU the UK will have to isolated. Offering concessions… Read more »

Darcy
Reply to  billy builder
17, June 2016 1:29 pm

We’ll soon find out. Experience shows the EU is built on compromise.

billy builder
Reply to  Darcy
17, June 2016 1:42 pm

Darcy, its a one way street – exit means exit – don’t fool yourself by thinking otherwise.

Be very careful how you vote.

Darcy
17, June 2016 12:12 pm

Thank you all for your comments on the referendum some of which were useful additions to the mix – particularly ‘m coakley’. I think one of the biggest problems for the island is that the EU has failed to give us island status which means we are effectively lumped in regionally with our much richer neighbour, Hampshire. This would seem to affect our ability to receive regeneration… Read more »

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