Closed toilets:

Reopening public toilets: Why one councillor voted against the motion

At last week’s full council meeting, members were asked to vote on a motion proposed by Labour councillor Alan Hollands to open as many public toilets as possible.

His motion read

That Council resolves to re-open as many of the public toilets as possible closed by the last administration, in recognition that this is a tourist Island with inclusive needs by both visitors and residents.

Lumley: “People don’t forget”
Fellow Labour councillor, Geoff Lumley, said he would be supporting the motion and went on to add,

Who can possibly stand in here as an elected councillor and vote against this? Someone who wants to get re-elected in three and a half years time? That three and a half years will catch up with you all very fast and people don’t forget.

One vote against
After many councillors had their say from across the chamber, a vote was taken.

Thirty two members of the council voted in favour of the motion, five abstained and just one councillor, Conservative councillor for West Wight, Stuart Hutchinson, voted against.

Hutchinson: “Frivolous motions”
We were curious as to why Cllr Hutchinson chose to vote against this motion. He explained to us that he would continue to vote against motions “which have no practical value whatsoever”.

He told OnTheWight,

“Voting to open ‘as many toilets as possible’ could well mean none, who knows. Certainly none of the members who voted for it.

“We had no information on which to base a rational decision, only to vote for it as a ‘feel good’ option.”

Motions should be back up with analysis
He went on to tell us,

“I personally don’t think members should be allowed to put any motion that is not accompanied by thorough analysis and research, and neither should they be allowed to do so without a basic minimum number of members (perhaps at least five) supporting the addition of the motion to the agenda.

“This would help to prevent, or at least reduce, the sort of shambles we had last week with frivolous motions being put, some almost discussed and then withdrawn, wasting everyone’s time when there are important management issues to consider.

He made the point that many of the issues raised in proposed motions were embedded in the Cabinet Members’ reports, which as the meeting was so prolonged, didn’t leave much time to question.

Root and branch review
During the debate, deputy leader, Cllr Stubbings, confirmed that public toilets were included as a priority in the root and branch review of council services currently being conducted.

Cllr Hutchinson said,

“Whether additional public toilets should be opened will be an element of expenditure which after that review, competes with others for scarce resources. The proper time for voting as to what should have priority, is when the review is complete, spending increases and reductions are presented at the next budget round, and we are balancing competing needs.”

He finished by saying,

“Recently I returned from Menorca, an Island of similar size to ours and at least as many tourists. No public toilets at all. It doesn’t seem to deter visitors.”

Image: Deb Collins under CC BY 2.0

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Bystander
26, June 2013 1:22 pm

A tale of toilets and plenty of motions, to cause a commotion so full of emotion.

Barbara Green
26, June 2013 1:25 pm

Just wait councillor when you get bladder problems we need the toilets, its funny really that the visitors to the Island seek out the toilets and often ask where they are
So take note councillor !!!!!

JamesP
26, June 2013 1:31 pm

Oh dear – he is rather pedantic, isn’t he? I also suspect that people go to Minorca for different reasons than the Isle of Wight…

Cynic
26, June 2013 4:41 pm

He is also mistaken!

There are public toilets in most shopping centres in Menorca and most bars and restaurants will have them for customers’ use.

(Menorca Tourist Information).

tryme
26, June 2013 5:08 pm

I thought he had a reasonable point all the way, (that they might as well have asked for a vote on ‘We would all like to do some jolly nice things now we’re in power’, in the absence of facts & figures), but then he seems to have spoiled it all by saying Menorca doesn’t need toilets. He seems to be a ‘closet’ toilet-denier after all. Plus… Read more »

Tiki
26, June 2013 7:35 pm

What an arrogant man. I can assure you Mr Hutchinson that members of the public don’t regard toilets as a ‘feel good option’, they are a necessity. Many people on this island were angry when Tourist Information Boards and Toilets were closed and heaven only knows what tourists make of it all. You are clearly out of touch with reality. Obviously they can’t all be opened but… Read more »

Roy
Reply to  Tiki
26, June 2013 9:10 pm

He he Tiki, yes, this “arrogant man” really is completely “out of touch” to think that public toilets are unimportant. Anyway, what an idea, that we ought to aspire to worse places, ie “Menorca”! If, as I imagine, Mr Hutchinson is rather pleased with the extra attention he’s getting, then I wonder what his next blunder will be? Aargh, I’m suddenly getting an image of him relieving… Read more »

old bull
26, June 2013 11:37 pm

Mr Hutchinson obviously has a large bladder and great control over it. It is a shame that he does not have better control of his utterences as he seems to suffer from verbal diahorea. So we know the best place for his comments. The last Tory administration made great play about strengthening the public realm then set about it with a sledge hammer to demolish it. Public… Read more »

robsuk
26, June 2013 11:43 pm

WE all cannot afford to go to Menorca just to go to the toilet cllr Hutchinson.

Hunter
27, June 2013 3:49 am

Stop subsidising southern vectis with our money and open the toilets and tics !
With more central gov cuts looming I fear the worse here .

Dee
27, June 2013 8:39 am

Mr Hutchinson has clearly never been ‘caught short’ and doesn’t have a bladder or bowel disease. How nice for him. I wish I could say the same. Public toilets are NOT simply for tourists. There are many of us on the island who enjoy hiking and walking in our beautiful surroundings and the availability of a toilet is vital. Either that or we’ll end up with desperate… Read more »

I do not believe it
27, June 2013 9:46 am

Does anyone have the home address of this sadly misgiuded Hutchinson person? I should very much enjoy knocking on his front door, together with my slightly incontinent old mother and very incontinent tribe of grandchildren, to seek his permission to use his domestic sanitary facilities. I wonder if this Hutchinson person is trying to emulate the electoral death-wishes perpetrated by his Tory dear departed Ex Councillors Pugh,… Read more »

Tom Spragg
Reply to  I do not believe it
27, June 2013 10:14 am

The home address of all Councillors is published on their respective page on the Council website.

Darcy
27, June 2013 9:57 am

Anyone know who abstained?

Darcy
Reply to  Darcy
27, June 2013 4:50 pm

Presumably no-one knows which five Councillors abstained! It would be helpful to establish their reasons for not supporting the motion.

Cynic
Reply to  Sally Perry
27, June 2013 5:45 pm

Surprise! Surprise! Four Conservatives and one unknown?

(Voting instructions still wafting through the ether from the now defunct cabal? :-))

Darcy.
Reply to  Sally Perry
27, June 2013 6:19 pm

Thanks Sally. No surprise there then. Just checking to ensure no Indies were on the list…

Tom Spragg
Reply to  Darcy.
27, June 2013 9:19 pm

Of course there weren’t. They are all Independent thinking

Stuart Hutchinson
27, June 2013 10:46 am

I see my response to ‘onthewight’ has generated some entertaining comments as well as a fair amount of vitriol. From some of the comments above I think I now understand what toilet humour means ! Firstly an apology, having checked, there are a few “banos publicos” on Menorca, though generally not very visible. Almost everyone uses the facilities provided by local bars and businesses. But that wasn’t… Read more »

Bystander
Reply to  Stuart Hutchinson
27, June 2013 11:04 am

You say people don’t make a decision about where to holiday based on public toilet facilities, but people do make decisions on whether to return to places with poor facilities. You also say we have more toilets than other local authorities, but we are a unitary authority so how do we compare using that criteria? As for your list of ‘to do priorities’, you find yourself in… Read more »

sam salt
Reply to  Stuart Hutchinson
27, June 2013 11:31 am

Mr Hutchinson, I have read your comments and the original article with interest. Perhaps I can put to you that at the time the decision was made to close many public toilets on the Island that this decision was made with spurious and inaccurate information. Statistics were obtained not using the same criteria for different facilities over a number of months. Usage statistics were not obtained on… Read more »

Lady at the back
Reply to  Stuart Hutchinson
27, June 2013 12:50 pm

Very interesting to read Cllr Hutchinson’s comments, and I am glad he takes the opportunity to engage with OTW readers. Whether you agree with him or not, it is good to hear his rationale. I wish more councillors would engage with OTW ; it is far more productive than councillors , or ex-councillors, sneering at bloggers and their concerns.

steve s
Reply to  Lady at the back
27, June 2013 1:27 pm

It most certainly is!

Kudos to Cllr Hutchinson for presenting his case here.
As a matter of interest, Stuart, how many public toilets did your ward lose in the cull?

Cynic
27, June 2013 11:14 am

Cllr Hutchison comments “people don’t make a decision about where to holiday based on public toilet facilities.” Probably that is because it is an implicit expectation of visitors that they will be available as in any other civilised Western destination. Further when he says upgrading “rather than opening even more (toilets)” does he means RE-opening existing ones already built and paid for but closed by the previous… Read more »

daft old duffer
27, June 2013 11:33 am

Shouldn’t the word ‘motion’ in the title be in the plural?

Oldie
27, June 2013 12:20 pm

I’ve never been to Menorca butin India, men just stand up wherever they are in public and just do it (no. 1 and no2). In Greece I’ve seen men doing it in the street in the middle of Athens against bus-stops without caring who watches. This country used to be more civilised. What is it about some men who don’t want public toilets? It’s so much more… Read more »

Sunny Jim
27, June 2013 1:46 pm

As a precursors to the rest of my comment below, let me make it clear, I want as many as possible of the now-closed public toilets on the island to be opened again. I’ve been surprised reading this comment thread. The normally well informed and considered response from OnTheWighters aren’t widely showing those usual qualities. From how I read it, yes Stuart could have gone and voted… Read more »

Roy
Reply to  Sunny Jim
27, June 2013 6:12 pm

No ‘Sunny Jim’, I disagree. Stuart Hutchinson clearly shows me that he acts without thought. Certainly not for others! His comparisons are in my eyes non-arguments. We all know that there’s always someone somewhere who’s worse off than us. Does he tell those other people similar stories? Rather, I suspect he’s motivated by his perceived self-importance. Notice in his reply the listing of all the ‘I-have-bigger-problems’ that… Read more »

RJC
28, June 2013 7:49 am

Well, I have not missed them, there are plenty of supermarkets, cafes etc. I have relatively short range tanks but seem to easily find one somewhere. Perhaps we should do like some other local authorities and start charging, then they can open them all and use the revenue on more worthy causes. It can be an expensive day out for me on the north island when you… Read more »

Bystander
Reply to  RJC
28, June 2013 8:20 am

Does the J stand for Jack? As in ‘I’m alright’

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