Bin changes draws anger from hundreds of Isle of Wight residents

Hundreds of Isle of Wight residents are angry with the allocation of 140 litre wheelie bins for their black bag rubbish. They’re calling on the council and Amey (the contractor) to rethink their policy.

new black bins at steephill 640

Residents on the Isle of Wight have started to receive either a new black wheelie bin or gull-proof sacks in preparation for the way household waste is collected from 2nd May.

Through the changes the Isle of Wight council are aiming to encourage more recycling, which brings money into the council and less waste going to landfill, which costs the council money and is less environmentally friendly.

Amey, the company with the 25 year waste disposal contract, have re-assessed all properties on the Island as to their suitability for wheelie bins (and size of).

Mass outrage
However, in the first week of the new bins being dispatched across the Island, an online petition has been created calling on the council to rethink their policy.

Set up by Julie King of Cowes, at time of publishing over 900 residents have signed the Change.org petition, angry at the allocation of 140 litre black wheelie bins.

New bins are “too small”
Many argue the bin is not going to be large enough to hold two week’s black bag waste and say the council have been allocating the wrong size bins to any households of over three people.

The petition reads,

“The residents of the Isle of Wight have not been consulted about the changes to our waste collection, which we believe we should have been. Households up to 5 are only being given a 140 litre black bin which supposedly holds 4 black sacks of rubbish.

I’ve tested mine, it holds 2 full bags and almost half of another! A household of 3 upwards will make more rubbish than one of 1 to 2. You haven’t taken into account pets who make rubbish, especially those who eat food pouches as they’re not recyclable.

I want the policy changed so that either larger bins are provided to larger families (not just 6 or over) or it is agreed black sacks left at the kerbside will be collected.

If the whole Island is expected to take their own excess rubbish to the tip it will increase fly tipping (that will be nice for visitors), rubbish piled up in gardens and will increase car fumes (not good for the environment, contradicts why we’re encouraged to recycle) and increase traffic, possibly causing congestion at the tips (one of which is closing soon for improvements).

If people choose to put their rubbish in neighbour’s bins it could lead to conflict. Salford Council, Chichester Council and others use 140 litre bins but for single occupants only, the standard size they issue is 240 litres and 360 litres for a household of 6 or more. Please change the size of our bins Isle of Wight Council and Amey.”

Public consultation
The Isle of Wight council did hold a public consultation in 2014 on waste collection and recycling prior to the selection of bidder for the 25 year contract.

More comments on the subject can be found on the online petition.

OnTheWight will get in touch with the IWC on Monday for a response to the petition and update once we hear back from them.

Saturday, 2nd April, 2016 6:33pm

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ShortURL: http://wig.ht/2e60

Filed under: Island-wide, Isle of Wight Council, Isle of Wight News, Top story, Waste PFI Contract

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Any views or opinions presented in the comments below are solely those of the author and do not represent those of OnTheWight.

157 Comments

  1. Im sure some people complain for the sake of it.

  2. Julia Baker-Smith


    2.Apr.2016 7:11pm

    The waste contract public consultation took place between September and November 2014. The procurement of the new contract has been a long process but Islanders were consulted. I remember the mass outrage of having to take bins to the kerbside, store green wheelie bins and separate food waste some (8?) years ago, but people adjusted to the change.
    This new contract gives people the option to pay for a doorstep collection (those with disabilities will get that for free), we will be able to recycle far more items than before including tetrapacks and aerosols, we will be recycling on the island with new state if the art plants and energy centre. As we recycle more less and less will go into the black bins. I’d rather reduce, re-use, recycle and not be looking at a planning application in a few years to dig another big hole in our beautiful Island’s countryside to bury rubbish in. People would soon be up in arms if there were a proposal for a new landfill next to their home yet there seems to be a disconnect in people’s minds between the size of their bin and where the rubbish goes!
    I’m pleased I will now have a container for my black bags so I don’t have to clear up after the badgers. I hear the badgers are starting a petition at change.org

    • retired hack


      2.Apr.2016 7:43pm

      Julia, thanks for coming on here.
      Refresh my memory, please. In the consultation exercise, was the prospect of small (140-litre) black bins, without the option for additional black bags placed kerbside, specifically flagged? And if it was, did it attract majority support among respondents?

      • Julia Baker-Smith


        2.Apr.2016 7:58pm

        I don’t have the consultation responses to hand at the moment RH but as I recall it showed that people wanted to increase recycling, reduce waste to landfill but they also wanted a wheelie bin for black bags.

        • Yet another public sector PR exercise using a past “consultation” as an Elastoplast?

          (BTW I do’t remember being consulted!)

        • retired hack


          2.Apr.2016 8:23pm

          Sorry, Julia, but if the specifics weren’t consulted upon, and it seems from what you say that they were not, then it should come as no surprise that there’s now an adverse reaction.

        • the consultation allowed people to have their say if they wanted to.

          It did not go out asking people. No reason why it should either.

          If you didnt make the effort to have your say at the time, then tough luck. You had your opportunity.

          As Julia says, the results were to reduce landfill, increase recycling, and have a black wheelie bin. Those things are happening now. Why moan when we are getting what people said they wanted?

          • Not quite! Only those people able to access the “consultation” were able to say what they wanted.

          • Everyone was able to access the consultation if they wanted to.

            A simple letter to county hall would suffice otherwise.

            There is no excuse for claiming you were not consulted – you were. If you didnt make the effort to make your views known, that is your problem, not anyone elses.

          • Probably right. Rick

            The “consultation” was primariiy online wasn’t it? I don’t recall forms being available in libraries as they sometimes are. The outcome of the 6 week survey was
            to award a 25 year/£225 million contract to Amey Cespa

            Could somebody please point me to where I can remind myself about the Waste Consultation and also review number of responses- on line and written- as I cannot find it on the IWC website.

            Thanks

          • The contract was not awarded as a result of the consultation. That was only one aspect of the decision.
            You were consulted. The council doesn’t actually have to do what people suggest in consultation but in this case they have.
            What is the problem exactly? People have got what they wanted. The bins are big enough as most rubbish should go to recycling. What is the problem?

          • The IWC website states clearly that the outcome of the consultation was the award of the contract.

            What is the problem? In your words “The council doesn’t actually have to do what people suggest in consultation but in this case they have.”

            Can you pls point to where in the consultation it asked “Do you want IWC to place the contract with AmeyCespa?”

            Further if local and central government ignore the outcomes of “consultations”, “e-petitions” etc, what is the point of having them, other than fooling the public they have a choice in the latter?

          • typo pls replace “latter” with “matter”

        • Suruk the Slayer


          3.Apr.2016 5:24pm

          There is a world of difference between wanting to improve recycling and being railroaded into it.

          Also, when people stated they wanted a wheely bin for non recyclable waste, I imagine they were thinking along the lines of the kind of bin provided by other authorities.

          Not a bin that restricts them to one rubbish sack a week with an associated diktat that no sacks placed outside the bin will be collected, and no information as to what to do with any excess!

    • Darren Irving


      2.Apr.2016 9:23pm

      Regarding the Badger comment, they probably will not petition anyone as these and many other types of bins are not badger proof!

    • The on-line consultation covered aspects of recycling and most people would agree that is a good thing.
      It didn’t ask whether I was prepared to dig up my flower bed in order to accommodate recycling bins.
      It didn’t state that the Council would go against its own core policy of encouraging SuDs and make people pave over green spaces.
      It did not make clear that people with small gardens that they have taken pride to develop would now have to forsake them for bins.
      It did not state that the Council officers would adopt a bullying policy to those who might object to the above.
      For many people this is’nt about whether or how to recycle, we don’t need that decision justified. Its about how you are asking us to do it, and how completely inflexible the Council is to personal circumstances.
      The Isle of Wight Council should be supporting people who want to recycle but also keep their neighbourhood pleasant, not trying to bully them. The Isle of Wight Council and Amey should hang their heads in shame.

  3. Vix Lowthion


    2.Apr.2016 7:31pm

    The conversations I have had about this have surprised me. I believed it was common sense that for the last 5 years we have separated our waste into food, recyclable card and plastics, and general black binbag waste. I do this without much thought now – and my household of 4 people has 1 or 2 black bin bags a fortnight. Everything else is food or recycling waste. So the 140L black bin is more than adequate.

    It appears that many islanders have not been separating waste like this. Hence the belief that the new bins are not big enough.

    Yes – it will take a period of adjustment I am sure. But the principle of unlimited recycling collections and around 2 black bin bags is more than enough for my household – and we go through a lot of stuff!

    It would be helpful however if our shops and manufacturers used packaging which could all be recycled. As more councils follow similar waste contracts i hope that shops will take note.

    • retired hack


      2.Apr.2016 7:51pm

      Vix: “the principle of unlimited recycling collections”. Where do you get that from? It’s certainly not in the flyer which came through my door. There’s a very helpful graphic on it. On Recycling day I can put out my green bin with a box insert for paper/card; plus my food caddy; plus a green waste sack if pre-booked and paid for; plus textiles in own bag/s.
      The only unlimited element of that is the textiles.

    • Vix Lowthion


      2.Apr.2016 7:59pm

      The leaflet clearly states that you can leave extra recycling in bags next to the green bin and they will be collected. You cannot do that with the black bin.

      I know that you can get a 2nd green bin if you request it too.

      • Suruk the Slayer


        3.Apr.2016 10:39am

        I guess I’m going to recycle more, then. Not sure how Amey will cope with some of the stuff I think they should recycle, but currently don’t, though.

        I think it should be recycled, so it goes in the recycle bin. What Amey do with it is their problem.

    • greenfiremouse


      3.Apr.2016 12:49pm

      …it would also be helpful if shops were instructed not to distribute unnecessary packaging in the first place and give customers the opportunity to leave packaging there.
      Also, if there was a deposit on plastic and other bottles (to be returned to the supplier), we could cut down on much of the plastic waste that is currently polluting our oceans. It seems to be possible in Germany, so why can’t we do it here? Of course, the Germans have more experience in recycling and reusing.
      Another idea from Germany is supplying households with a suitable size garden with a compost box (instead of a food container). This way you can improve your garden soil for free. Currently, the contents of the food containers are just getting burnt, as far as I know; whether that includes the plastic bags the food is supposed in or not, I can only guess…
      Please correct me if I am wrong.

    • Your last paragraph Vix says it all. A lot of supermarket packaging and covering is not recyclable.
      Big business are passing the buck to householders and politicians including yourself can’t/won’t do anything about it.
      This will probably lead to fly tipping and this is a holiday isle which is very sad. Not everyone is rich enough to have a car to go all the way to Lynbottom every so often or a garden big enough to have bonfires when necessary or a Guy Faulkes communal bonfire every November like we did till the late 60s before plastic was invented. And many people these days have no communal conscience but only care about themselves since the late 80s/early 90s

  4. dragonfly


    2.Apr.2016 7:41pm

    Completely agree with Vix here (although unable to vote for some reason). We have a household of 4 and only produce one bag of non-recycling per fortnight. People really need to take some responsibility for their waste. They stop thinking about it once they’ve thrown something away, but there’s no such place as “away”.

    • Darren Irving


      2.Apr.2016 8:10pm

      As I’ve commented many times on this subject on previous threads I’m just going to chip in, I also don’t see why humans think it’s their right to expect other people to clear their waste up.
      Landfill is toxic and most landfill sites give off methane even after they have gone out of service, a major contributor to climatic change!
      Reduce!
      Reuse!
      Recycle!
      I don’t see why everyone cannot take responsibility for things like this, we only have this one planet, there is no get out clause. Species are disappearing everywhere because of our constant raping of the planet!

  5. William Timmins


    2.Apr.2016 7:59pm

    If you do not like it then move to the mainland.

    • …. and be trapped in another AmeyCespa area?

    • retired hack


      2.Apr.2016 8:45pm

      If who doesn’t like what? Have you wandered over from the fixed link thread?

      • Darren Irving


        2.Apr.2016 9:14pm

        Worth mentioning this isn’t an Island only problem is it?
        Waste happens everywhere!

        • Councils have different rules throughout the country. There are different definitions of recyclable. Some Councils (eg London Borough of Barnet) collect all the bins weekly). It doesn’t have to be like it is on the Island. It’s only because there are a high number of elderly and poor who do not have Internet access and do not know how to use social media that they have been taken advantage of by Amey.
          And even when one signs the online petition if you don’t know what you are doing you could end up signing one of the referendum sites by mistake. The large numbers who only have a simple old fashioned pay as you go phone haven’t a clue what’s going on until the bins appear.

          • BTW whenever I am in Spain, I note that refuse in town is collected daily (by Cespa subsidiaries?)

          • Steve Goodman


            4.Apr.2016 12:36pm

            Spain also had/has? a lot of open rubbish dumps in rural areas.

          • (Steve) True! My wife still has not forgiven me for refusing to visit one when she wanted to witness the northern migration of birds of prey from Africa across the Straits of Gibraltar one year! :-))

  6. Tony spears


    2.Apr.2016 8:10pm

    Is there anything on this Island that people do not whinge about… Oh we don’t do change, it’s always done this way. Get over it and learn to recycle more other than chuck everything in black bags… So so lazy.

    Look forward to hearing all of the excuses now ;)

    • Darren Irving


      2.Apr.2016 9:33pm

      Well said Tony, although as I understand it whinging is not exclusive to Islanders!
      We as a race and the so called intelligent species need to take account of our actions and the adverse effects they are having on our habitat!

  7. Rod Manley


    2.Apr.2016 8:45pm

    Another thin end of the wedge, pay your Council Tax and then pay to collect your rubbish.It’s coming!

  8. I don’t think the gripe is about recycling or separating as many people do this. It’s the size of the black bins being distributed. When you look at other Local Authorities who do the same and do not collect additional black bags their black bin sizes are 190L or 240L, stating that 140L bins will be offered to those households with only 1-2 people or elderly who cannot move larger bags (This is looking at Chichester and Salford). In some instances they even offer 360L bins to those families with 5/6 or even with just one child in nappies as long as they prove they are committed to recycling as much as possible.

    We recycle profusely in our household filling the bin and additional bags each week but there is still plenty that currently cannot be recycled and we will fill 3 black bags easily in a fortnight which cannot fit in the new black bins (we have tried them out for size).

    • Darren Irving


      2.Apr.2016 9:46pm

      Mitch, In essence the reason behind smaller bins is surely to make people think twice about how much landfill fodder they are creating, if it isn’t it should be! regardless if you are “recycling profusely” I would say the black bag waste you are generating is excessive!
      Just because other authorities provide bigger bins doesn’t make it right!
      Having a baby in nappies should have little effect on your waste, unless you are being wasteful and using the cheaper unreachable/non degradable nappies.
      Babies are only as wasteful as the parent/guardian looking after them!
      You don’t say how many of you there are at home Mitch so I have taken it for granted that there are say 2 adults 2 children and a pet?

      • There are 5 of us in our household, two of which are in nappies and neither of them are babies and a few pets. I would not class us as wasteful and I’m sure many other parents would not either. We are just trying to work out what we can actually reduce more than we already have to ensure our black bag amount reduces.

        • Darren Irving


          2.Apr.2016 11:07pm

          Mitch, at least you are looking into reduction, as a parent also our family have a comparable footprint to yours but we output only 2 (not even full) black bags.
          I do think when issues such as this crop up everybody instantly thinks they are being got at.
          To put some things into perspective, estimates are at the current rate of harm to our ecology we may well lose up to 50% of the world’s wildlife in the next 100 years!
          Methane, ammonia, sulphides and carbon dioxide are harmful gases produced as a byproduct of landfill (ammonia generally is the smell around the tip!) this adds to the damage of the atmosphere affecting our climates.
          We are far too reliant on livestock and meat products, I have stated for perspective that say for instance if every person across the pond in America was to abstain from meat and cheese one day a week for one year it would be equivalent to taking around 7,600,000 cars off the road!

          Humans as a whole are the 6th most devastating event that has affected the planet in it’s long history, and it is just worsening by the day!
          Google “Anthropocene” and see what you come up with

        • Darren Irving


          3.Apr.2016 8:28pm

          Very constructive Paleo, and untrue, I guess you are one of those people that sees the human race as the single most important thing in the world, and that everything else should conform to our wishes and wants?

      • Darren Irving


        3.Apr.2016 1:01am

        Edit – *non-recyclable/non-degradable nappies

        • You’ll be advocating the old fashioned towelling nappies, washable STs and washable incontinence pads for the elderly like we had till the 60s next Darren. This thread is becoming ridiculous.
          Amey would be laughing their heads off it if they read it.

          • Darren Irving


            4.Apr.2016 12:09am

            We have in the past used re-useable nappies, and yes we still have them and will use them again for the next child!
            And the problem ?

          • Steve Goodman


            4.Apr.2016 8:46am

            From memory, wasn’t it (understandably) illegal to put human waste in landfill? If so, I wonder when/if that changed.

            Also; over a decade ago in Germany I was impressed by the simple routine return of packaging at supermarkets. Shoppers took back the plastic, glass, card and cans on their next trip; there were even containers into which plastic bottles were fed, which printed a ticket for a small refund at the till.

            Circular economies make economic and environmental sense. As does doing something useful about there being too many people consuming too much on a single planet.

            Reduce, reuse, recycle; it saves money and materials, and having only finite resources ultimately we have no choice.

          • (Steve) When we lived in Germany, every so often people could put out their larger household items on the kerb for other to inspect and take if they wanted. (Of course, German pride meant one could only do this in a different village in case one’s neighbours saw you digging in the rubish!)

            This seems a good way to recycle unwanted goods. (After a day or so the authorities would collect the unwanted remnants and recycle them normally).

          • Steve Goodman


            4.Apr.2016 12:30pm

            It is; I’ve done that (without transporting anything further than the front of the property) there and here.

            Freecycle and Freegle are also useful.

      • Suruk the Slayer


        3.Apr.2016 10:34am

        The simple fact is that the packaging of everything my family consume has to be disposed of. If the council think, essentially, that one black sack per week is sufficient to contain the non recyclable waste for a family of four (including two teenagers), then so be it.

        Everything else MUST be recyclable, and will go into the recycle bin. Amey will just have to recycle more types of material. If they cannot, currently, recycle all that I place in the recycle bin, then that is their problem. They need to up their game.

        It is quite unreasonable to dictate that only one small wheely bin of non recyclable waste will be collected per fortnight whilst still having such an extensive list of materials that cannot be recycled. They want to have their cake and eat it.

        • Brilliant Surik. What would Amey do if enough people thought and did what you suggest?

        • CHRIS P LAMB


          4.Apr.2016 10:12am

          Just a few observations on this issue. I am not yet in receipt of the black bin or waste paper container but from the pictures in the leaflet the waste paper container does not look particularly big. I am just wondering if 13 days of daily papers plus 2 Sunday papers with inserts plus 2 County Press with inserts plus junk mail and cardboard will fit. I stand to be corrected on this though.

          Then there is the issue of what is and isn’t recyclable which appears to differ dependent on the authority where one lives or the company responsible for waste. For example I have read leaflets which suggest any cardboard cartons with a silver lining are non-recyclable. This includes pringles, cocoa or splenda boxes. Now they are recyclable. Tonic water and other soft drink bottles are recyclable except the label which is attached for easy removal. How many people do remove the label?

          Then there is the issue of glass. Some authorities require glass to be segregated into clear, brown and green, others do not. On one occasion in the Midlands I asked an operative what should be done with blue glass. He said it cannot be recycled and goes with landfill. The next time I visited another person was told to include it with the brown. Aluminium foil was a no no now it’s fine if clean.

          On a practical note, one might argue that householders are paying council tax to have refuse removed but appear to be doing most of the job themselves. If Whitehall requires councils to segregate, incinerate, bury, recycle or whatever that is no concern of the householder, let the council do what it has to do. Will it come to a point where tax payers pay for refuse disposal but not only segregate it but take it to the tip personally? Where does this stop? It’s rather like a garage mechanic getting the customer to do half the car service himself but still expecting to receive the full bill.

          • Steve Goodman


            4.Apr.2016 11:27am

            Bills; one might also argue that householders are paying council tax and Whitehall tax for services like this, and paying more because private contractors also demand profits for shareholders and overpaid bosses.

        • Vix Lowthion


          4.Apr.2016 10:49am

          I think this is complicating the issue. We have one of the simplest recycling systems here on the island – everything goes in one Green bin. The only stipulations are the short list of black binbag items, and that items should be free of food contaminants.

          Yes I agree about the small size of the paper and card insert box for 2 weeks of recycling. But as you can add as many supplementary recycling bags as required, I would put any additional paper and card in a clear or white bag and place it next to the bin.

          • Suruk the Slayer


            5.Apr.2016 7:16am

            The “free of food contaminants” thing is something else that isn’t going to happen. This is supposed to reduce waste. Every household using energy ( not to mention time ) washing up yoghurt pots, etc, before they are thrown out is exceedingly inefficient. This should be done centrally by Amey.

          • Darren Irving


            5.Apr.2016 11:40am

            Suruk, you could always use your old washing up water for washing of “contaminated” recyclables after the dishes have been done!
            No extra waste!
            It’s all about changing your own habits for the greater good.

          • Suruk the Slayer


            5.Apr.2016 11:55am

            What “old washing up water”? The dishes go in the dishwasher.

  9. profoundlife


    2.Apr.2016 9:58pm

    Recycling more is always a good aim. But… I looked up the top three councils for recycling (South Oxfordshire, Vale of White Horse and Rochford) and they all have larger bins for non-recyclables. A little flexibility would be great – I have an infant and will fill a black bag with just nappies (sadly not recyclable)

    • Darren Irving


      2.Apr.2016 11:14pm

      Larger bins = larger waste
      Larger waste = more landfill
      More landfill = more gases
      More gases = more environment damage
      More environment damage = less atmosphere
      Less atmosphere = less likely to support life
      Less likely to support life = death

      I guess we can all see by the simple layout of events above where ultimately this is going to head eventually!
      By no means the only issue affecting our environment but one of the worst!

      • Beware the larger bins that have an electronic chip fitted that shouts “Exterminate! Exterminate!” every time the lid is opened before reporting you to the Chief Dalek of Ferrovial in Madrid! :-))

      • profoundlife


        3.Apr.2016 9:29am

        Darren, a sense of perspective would help here. You could analyse every decision in your life as potentially resulting in more death, but it’s not particularly helpful. Waste management accounts for 4% of greenhouse gas emissions in the UK and I can’t see that changes like this are going to make any real dent, compared to the annoyance to people. Tighter regulation of cars and air transport would have far better outcomes. This is really about saving money for Amey.

        • profoundlife is correct- this is primarily about increasing the profits of Spain’s Ferrovial (owner of AmeyCespa) by forcing activities back down the value-added chain.

          The reverse value-chain method is being used by many private organisations today such as banks (online accounts and ATMs) and state organisations such as governments (online form filling and tax returns).

          Ferrovial (who also own 25% of LHR) has rewarded its shareholders with a growth of 89% in the last 6 years.

          (Renting a cottage in Northern France recently, we noted that the owners had left strict instructions that household waste should be separated and deposited in each of the five different coloured bins each week- or they would be fined.)

        • Darren Irving


          3.Apr.2016 11:05am

          It isn’t just about gas emissions, although if you are dismissive about every little gas output it doesn’t take long to accumulate. It’s more about amount/bulk/size of waste produced by homes, if you look at it another way why should those of us that are more responsible towards our waste footprint have to pay as much as someone generating 4-5 times as much waste?
          Does it not matter to anyone how each individual personally impacts upon our living and outdoor spaces?
          This is my point exactly though, there should be tighter controls across the board not singling out the biggest polluters/wasters.
          Also the Methane output from livestock specifically bred for human consumption has just as much impact on our environment as transport does!
          How about the perspective of leaving a potentially noxious atmosphere to future generations?
          Very short sighted approaches to a large issue, I guess being brought up to value and care for our habitat is unusual to some!

          • profoundlife


            4.Apr.2016 11:08am

            What you are missing here, Darren, is that a lot of people are for broadly green policies – I very much support investment in green technologies, support for alternative fuels, personally reducing meat intake, improving recycling, effective carbon trading schemes, implemented biodiversity offsetting… the list goes on. But change management is about bringing people with you. You currently have a perspective of “I know what’s green! If you don’t agree with me, you’re wrong!” It’s a bit, well, clunky to say the least.

            As for all the little emissions adding up – this looks like it could only ever add up to 4% and will be unlikely to get to zero. There are more important issues. It’s not garnering reward particularly from the green lobby or grants etc from central government. Will any money saving go to supporting renewable technology? Or buying carbon emission permits? No, only to increase Amey profits.

  10. Why is so much going to landfill. We had a very expensive
    unit built at Forest Road to incinerate non-recyclable materials, yes I know I don’t keep up with a lot of things so WHY has this facility shut down?

    • Darren Irving


      2.Apr.2016 11:51pm

      Ray, Yes it is shut – temporarily for installation of new technology and redesign by Amey
      I’m hoping it will be a step in the right direction!

      • What is the Energy Returned on Energy Invested (ERoEI) of the new facilities at Forest Row, Lynbottom and Afton Down and the manufacture and distribution of the new wheelie bins?

        • Vix Lowthion


          3.Apr.2016 8:53am

          Considering the life cycle of the energy used from production of packaging to transportation to dumping. And the fact that dumping just isn’t an option and it needs to be disposed of with minimal impact. Then any energy returned through the new facilities is a bonus from the life cycle. What else would you do with it?

          • Only valuable if the Energy Returned is greater than the Energy Invested- otherwise it is just another Green “Motherhood and Apple Pie” statement.

            What is the surplus that will be returned from the changes at AmeyCespa sites on the Island and the manufacture and distribution of containers?

            What is the break-even point between the lifecycle of the “packaging” you describe and that of the non-biodegradable containers for recycling?

          • Darren Irving


            3.Apr.2016 9:41am

            Vix – do you not seem to get the impression that rather than alter their waste output certain people just seem to fill the bag put it out and forget who created the litter to begin with?
            Attitudes need to change I would say!

          • Answer the question or is it really all Apple Pie and Motherhood?

            As to who created the waste in the first place, it seems to me that the manufacturers and suppliers of wrapped products are the initiators.

            What are the Greens’ proposals for legislation banning manufacturers and suppliers from so doing? The 2015 Manifesto is limited to “Work to reduce food waste.”- not world-shattering!

            Although to be fair, it does state later “Use taxation and regulation to ensure that products and packaging are designed with a view to what happens to them when they stop being useful and packaging reduced. We want waste designed out and xing things – making them last – designed in. ”

            It would be good if you could reverse the trend of “planned obsolescence” that artificially shortens the lives of many products physically and technically. I suspect those with vested interests in profits will stop you.

          • Vix Lowthion


            3.Apr.2016 10:53am

            Absolutely – ideally the waste incinerator wouldn’t be necessary because we wouldn’t have waste! Reducing and reusing is much more preferable in terms of EROI .

            Meanwhile, back in the real world where shops still put their goods in far too much packaging, and residents prefer to bin rather than reuse then we have the necessary need to dispose of the waste, and incineration generating power is by far preferable to land fill.

          • Darren Irving


            3.Apr.2016 1:47pm

            Isn’t it funny how the majority of blame is put on the authorities for our waste issues?
            Who made the waste?
            Vix – I do feel you really have your work cut out educating people on recycling and waste, all of a sudden the supermarkets are to blame for their waste!
            Still I guess it is true – you can’t educate pork!
            Even if it is wrapped in eco friendly packaging!

          • dragonfly


            3.Apr.2016 2:31pm

            Reducing land fill will have a positive effect far into the future, even if costs don’t match up in the short term. People use items daily that have never decompose – all the “disposable” nappies and baby wipes that have ever been sent to landfill are still there and it’s estimated that they will take 200 – 500 years to break down. Nescafe has just put a new coffee machine on the market which uses single use cups. I’ve just read the comments on the petition. People are very ignorant of their responsibilities.

          • Darren Irving


            3.Apr.2016 3:21pm

            dragonfly – very true although I believe the coffee in question comes as a sort of takeaway pack, inside are individual cardboard cups with a one cup serving of coffee, you would hope it’s all recyclable, but still kind of missing the point!
            Funny idea really, I have a travel mug which adequately holds a hot liquid and is reusable! (plus it’s a heck of alot cheaper)
            Reading some comments on the petition against the bins, there were particular comments which stuck out:
            1- “we have 5 adults and an assortment of animals who all make rubbish think of hay and sawdust, we usually have around 10/12 black bags each fortnight many of others are the same its just ridiculous, we pay our council tax to dispose of our rubbish so don’t start charging us for it again”

            2- “I live in a house with 4 people, 1 dog and 3 cats. The cat litter is at least 1 black sack a week. When my grand children come round they leave used nappies, not recyclable. We use at least 5 black bin bags a week, more when a birthday has been at house or a party, let alone when we have a clear out. Bins are just not big enough. We have no car to get to dump so how r we suppose to dispose of extra rubbish”

            If you view all the petition comments on the link specified by the OTW story they are really eye opening!
            I’m dismayed by people who think it is their right to create as much detritus as they like and not be accountable for it in the long run!
            I do feel that some elderly and infirm may have issues with wheelie bins, unmade roads and distance to kerbside, surely if we were any kind of society we would lend a hand? That doesn’t imply we should have some kind of financed council service for it either, if you are concerned for someone – step up and help them!
            It’s the “not my problem ” “what have they ever done for me” mentality that gets me!

          • (Vix) ” incineration generating power is by far preferable to land fill.”

            As long as you don’t live downwind of it as we did of a crematorium! :-))

            I wonder what people in Forest Row and Arreton think of the local waste-powered generators.

  11. I have a 120 litre bin for a family of four. It last went out on 15/12/15 because I generate so little rubbish that I can’t be bothered putting it out. I think I put it out about five times a year and am now aiming to not put it out for a year.

    It’s a combination of fastidious recycling, saving non-recyclable combustibles (thermo-paper, tissues etc.) over the warmer months and forming them into two big briquettes for the wood fire and having a compost bin. I also have aluminium and steel recycling in my kitchen but that doesn’t reduce rubbish volume by much. I use stout crisp packets for bin bags and it will take several weeks to fill one. My current rubbish accumulation amounts to about one and a half school backpack’s worth after four and a half months.

    Obviously I’m at the pointy end of rubbish management but, seriously, how can anyone with a responsible attitude to rubbish management possibly need more than a 120/140 litre bin on a regular basis? If anyone who can’t fit their rubbish into these bins invited me around to check it I can guarantee to make it fit, large extraordinary items (breaking up a sofa, for instance) notwithstanding. You’d have to pay for my airfare from Perth, of course!

  12. Steephill Jack


    3.Apr.2016 7:12am

    I don’t want wheelie bins at all because I have 21 steps to the house and nowhere at house level to store the bins. So much for being ‘visually assessed’. All the houses in this street have steep steps and I can see accidents happening as people haul them up and down. Getting a request for sacks to the council by phone was not easy and I still don’t know what will happen. The black bin arrived yesterday. I never had a green wheelie bin so I wonder if I will get one ?
    I am keen to re-cycle and found that the previous system worked fine. What do these bins cost to buy and what cost to the environment for their manufacture ?

    • Janet Scott


      13.Jun.2016 12:46pm

      I sympathise with S.J. I have 45 steps up to my collection point or 26 steps down and a 20 Yard walk to the collection point I use.
      6 weeks ago I requested a re-assessment and they speak to me when they do it – Zilch.
      I too have been given a black wheelie bin ( water butt ) and black box ( nice raised planter for my carrots ).
      I will re-use, recycle and carry on regardless.

  13. I’m living partly on the mainland now so this won’t affect me much, and in any case my landfill waste is about half a carrier bag’s worth a fortnight, because I recycle or compost almost everything.

    But on the mainland I live with my parents, and we have an overflowing black wheelie bin every fortnight, because my Mum is now incontinent and we have to throw away soiled pads every day.

    So if we were doing that on the Island I’d be checking out what the policy is for people with incontinence, who have very little choice but to produce many litres of waste.
    The pads all contain non-compostable plastic.

    If the manufacturers produced pads with compostable plastic then the soiled pads could go in a compostable waste bin to composted out put in an anaerobic digester at high temperatures, so that they could become usable organic matter.

  14. Perhaps if our Council spent less money on their luxurious offices and facilities and paid the management group sensible salaries we would all be better off !
    Some of us have to live in the real world !

    • Darren Irving


      3.Apr.2016 9:35am

      It’s all my rubbish but it is someone else’s problem to deal with it is the general consensus then? seems personal responsibility is at an all time low.
      It all seems to revolve around people’s short sighted wants rather than the bigger picture, where do people seriously think that all this litter goes?
      Do they even care?
      As a side note anybody happened to look at the comments on the petition at change.org, they are an eyeopener!
      It seems not too many people on the island are even worried about their waste amounts.

  15. I looked on the council website at the end of last week and it stated that if you were a large family or had kids in nappies to email a certain address for a bigger bin!

    Ps I’m quite happy with a small bin, in a family of 3 we struggle to fill one bag every two weeks

  16. Suruk the Slayer


    3.Apr.2016 10:02am

    I certainly do recycle. The current recycle bin is usually full after a fortnight. The “insert” will cause a problem as it reduces the overall capacity of the recycle bin.

    As to the size of the new waste bin? It is obviously too small and will just about hold one week’s waste, not two. I see that the instructions on the card state that extra recycling material will be collected if it is placed alongside the recycle bin, but general waste will not. I assume this is a naive and crude attempt to encourage more recycling. It doesn’t, however, take into account what will happen with the inevitable overspill.

    I foresee long queues at Lynbottom as folks dump their waste themselves, adding to car pollution, while doing nothing to solve the waste problem. The less considerate members of society will merely leave the black bags at the roadside until someone does something about it, or worse, fly tip in the countryside to avoid the inevitable queues at the tip.

    A large part of the problem is that there is so much waste from supermarkets that is not recyclable at present. If the council expects folks to reduce their non-recyclable waste by the extent dictated by the size of the new bins, then they need to up THEIR game by increasing the amount of material which can recycled. To that end, I am going to take a leaf out of their own books ( i.e. force the issue by providing no alternmative) and assume most items are recyclable. If they can’t handle some of the material I put out for recycling, then that is their problem.

  17. One of the problem I foresee for myself is the following.

    Each week I collect the bins/bags for some 90yr old neighbours with walking difficulties and place them by the roadside.

    On ‘black sack” days, I keep their black bags in my garage overnight and put them out with mine the following morning. This avoids urban foxes/badgers etc ripping them and scattering the contents.

    I am just hoping that the black bins will be big enough to allow me to continue with this social help on “black bag” days.

    • Philip Hawkins


      3.Apr.2016 10:59am

      I put out bags or bins for neighbours away on collection day, maybe once or twice a year. Doing it on a regular basis surely tempts input from the H&S brigade?

      Have you done a “Risk assessment” or even a “Method statement” for this? Are you voiding your house insurance by storing it overnight? I could go on . . .

      (My calendar must have stopped – it still says April 1st!)

  18. richard orchard


    3.Apr.2016 10:54am

    I thinks a 140l bin is more than adequate if you seperate all the rubbish stuff out into the correct bins, the problem is some people can’t be bothered to. After all and extra couple of seconds is a disaster.

  19. We do separate all our stuff Richard in to the correct bins, we certainly can be bothered to do it. Still have more rubbish. It’s all very good saying they are doing it to reduce the amount going to landfill but it is still going to end up at landfill via a weekly trip to the tip now.

    Stuff we recycle I’ve actually looked at the back of the packet of and it states it cannot be recycled (frozen peas etc.) so hopefully what can be recycled can be increased or the supermarkets can change their packaging.

    • Suruk the Slayer


      3.Apr.2016 12:35pm

      And that is only for those who are civilised enough to take their excess to the tip.

      As all are probably aware, there is a small, but not insignificant, minority on this island who are happy to chuck their takeaway wrappers, and other litter, out of their car windows rather than suffer the inconvenience of finding a bin or, heaven forbid, take it home to dispose of it.

      These people will simply fly-tip, or merely let their garbage pile up at the end of the road.

  20. richard orchard


    3.Apr.2016 12:15pm

    I said some people not all people mitch but i agree supermarkets and other suppliers should use packaging that can be recylcled.

  21. colinteller


    3.Apr.2016 12:41pm

    We have been allocated two bins, even though our home is up two sets of steps and we have no storage area.

    We have survived happily using the small food waste bin and clear sacks for recycled waste.

    Why can we not request a change to the gull-proof sacks? The leaflet shows no option for this and we weren’t asked before hand.

  22. Mary Kouba


    3.Apr.2016 1:39pm

    As my mother is a one-person household and we’re a 2-person household plus we have a tiny back patio and don’t want to sit out there surrounded by huge bins, we have a small-size green recycling bin which is perfectly adequate for our needs. Did anyone bother checking which properties have these small bins before delivering the huge black box which supposedly has to fit in the top of the recycling bins. Of course, it doesn’t fit in ours! The suggestions we put this black box next to the recycling bin every fortnight is laughable as all the paper and card will be soggy on wet nights or blown all over the road when it’s windy.

  23. dragonfly


    3.Apr.2016 1:49pm

    I’ve just read the leaflet and I think that the change to stop taking bin lorries up unsurfaced roads is a major issue. Since they have to be out after 7 pm the night before collection or before 7 am on the day of collection, there will be a lot of people struggling to take wheelie bins down unsurfaced and unlit roads in the dark for half the year. I can’t imagine that anyone has considered the safety of this for residents, particularly the elderly. I don’t have a problem with recycling. I’m careful about what I buy and choose products with limited packaging. But I am concerned about moving the bins.

    • Suruk the Slayer


      3.Apr.2016 5:40pm

      Mine go out before dark. If that is 4pm in the Winter, they go out at 4pm.

      • Who would be responsible for somebody tripping over bins on the pavement but in the dark? IWC, AmeyCespa or the householder?

        • Vix Lowthion


          3.Apr.2016 7:17pm

          Island Roads for it being dark in the first place?!

          • :-)) However, according to the gov.uk website “Your council is responsible for the installation and maintenance of street lights.”

            So IWC as the statutory Highways Authority?

          • dragonfly


            3.Apr.2016 8:34pm

            Not all rural lanes are suitable for street lighting. The bin lorries currently serve them so I assume the reason for stopping serving these roads is to save time and increase profits?

          • Darren Irving


            3.Apr.2016 8:49pm

            The person for not having the intelligence to light their way with say a torch?
            I mean really come on are there no people that can think for themselves?

          • No one will sue anyone. Don’t even worry.

        • dragonfly


          3.Apr.2016 8:42pm

          Who would be responsible for someone injuring themselves by tripping in a pothole while trying to drag their wheelie bin half a mile in the dark (and apparently those of all their elderly neighbours) to the main highway? The reality of this move is a bit bonkers. There are loads of unmade roads on the Island which have been served by bin lorries up until now.

          • dragonfly


            3.Apr.2016 10:04pm

            Think about what you’re saying Darren. Yes I own a head torch, waterproof clothing and some wellies and I could probably manage a ten minute walk in the dark and the pouring rain with a bin in each hand. But many can’t and the policy will result in an increase in car trips to the tip or in fly tipping, both damaging to the environment. This move is about increasing profits, not environmental protection.

          • Darren Irving


            3.Apr.2016 10:26pm

            I have thought about it, but the fact of the matter is YOU are responsible for YOUR waste, just as I am responsible for MY waste which is probably a lot less than most.
            Increasing profits which are in fact due to the wastefulness of society these days. If your bins are not big enough you should pay extra for more space!
            If you live 10 minutes down a lane and the road is unmade or unadopted why should us that put our rubbish out as requested in the correct place have to pay the same amount as you ?

            You could campaign for reform and that could well come back and bite you in the backside, Imagine having to pay per bag of waste collected, I’d be quids in whereas many would be out of pocket and hopefully considering there wasteful actions!
            I and my family along with others I know waste very little, Everybody has to pay council tax (apart from those who get certain benefits)and it’s factored into our weekly budget like most that plan ahead.

          • dragonfly


            4.Apr.2016 1:12am

            I don’t understand your logic. Why would it cost the company more to drive on an unmade road than on a tarmac road?

    • The collection crews will continue to collect from the unsurfaced roads that are currently collected from.

      Should the road surface become hazardous to the crew on foot or cause damage to the vehicles a risk assement will be conducted. If it is too risky to collect from the road, residents will be informed and a request for the road to be repaired to a safe condition will be made.

  24. OMG. Someone pleaseg get me a doctor. I seem to be agreeing with Vix. HELP.

    • Darren you’re taking this thread too seriously. LFlytippers are not going to leave their name and address on their rubbish.

      • Darren Irving


        4.Apr.2016 12:03am

        So you don’t see the issue here ?
        Ultimately if you flytip it will end up as a cost to us all when local authorities have to rise the council tax more to cover costs, Funny that many who do flytip are actually stupid enough to leave identifying stuff in the rubbish they dump!

  25. Sense of Perspective


    3.Apr.2016 5:55pm

    Millions are fleeing appalling, life threatening conditions in the Middle East.

    Millions face starvation and an AIDS epidemic in sub-saharan Africa.

    Babies with abnormally small brains are being born by the hundreds (perhaps thousands?) in South America because of a little understood virus.

    Thousands of steel workers in South Wales are about to lose their livelihood because of the unwillingness of our inept government to support vital industry.

    On the Isle of Wight, some people think their new bin isn’t quite large enough…

    • You forgot to add the 795 million people who are starving worldwide…

    • profoundlife


      4.Apr.2016 11:29am

      SOP, pointing this out as poor policy doesn’t affect any of those things positively or negatively. Sense of Non-Sequitur would be more appropriate. You can’t respond to everything in life by saying “Millions face starvation!”.

      I’ve been short-changed. “Millions face starvation!”
      You forgot to pick the kids up from school. “Millions face starvation!”
      You never called me back. “Millions face starvation!”

      No one is saying this is the biggest problem in civilisation, just that it is poor policy.

      • I don’t agree that it’s poor policy.

        If reducing the size of the bin that people use for sending their waste to landfill acts as a “nudge” in the right direction to reducing overall waste, then it is good policy.

        If it means that our finite resources are used more sparingly, it is excellent policy.

        We must remember than our elected officials are there to do what is right for our society. What we NEED isn’t always what we WANT.

        • If so, would not the logic then go on to suggest that having *no* black bins at all but sticking with the original sacks would be an even better policy, since it would save the cost to the IWC the additional expense of funding the manufacture and distribution of those bins?

          • Braveheart


            4.Apr.2016 4:46pm

            Not to mention the exorbitant amount of money spent in buying a new fleet of special lorries for both the recycling and black bins.

            Bags are not only easier to handle but are far cheaper to produce and buy.

          • I wonder how many of AmeyCespa’s fleet will be leased rather than owned (rather like IR’s it is alleged.)

            Is the cost of equipment leasing of either contractor passed onto IWC as a valid operational expense to be reimbursed?

  26. (Beeb) “Perhaps all councils should follow the lead of a Sussex council, which is rewarding people who recycle well by sticking a gold star on the bin.”

    Mmmm! Maybe a commercial opportunity for Island stationers? :-))

  27. Let’s see how many red arrows this gets.
    Living on an Island with several prisons, I’d quite like to see all of the able bodied and less dangerous inmates chained together in orange boiler suites sifting through our rubbish and placing it into the various recycling containers, enabling us to put it all in one bin, or as we did many years ago, just be able to drive into the dump and fling it over the wall. I just don’t see why we are paying for things like road sweeping and litter picking in our Council Tax, when we could be tagging / chipping these people, helping them to do something productive, and for the benefit of the community. I’m sure there’s a more politically correct way of spinning this, as they could be paid for their work, given training, and a purpose as they find a way back into society?

    • Darren Irving


      3.Apr.2016 10:32pm

      A revolutionary idea John but I can’t see many of them leaving the comfort of their paid for accommodation and amenities!
      Perhaps society itself could find a way of maybe taking responsibility ?
      Who cares what your arrow score is, say how you feel and stick to your guns, I don’t have an opinion to be liked on here, it’s purely to get a point across !

    • At the old TB hospital in Ventnor they used to take the rubbish along the rails through the tunnel (in the Botannical Gardens) and tip it into the sea).

    • I think most of the inmates are sex offenders. Do you really think they should be out litter picking? I dont.
      I believe Gary glitter is in there. I don’t think people like him should ever see daylight.

  28. I thought households paid Council Tax which included having the waste collected? So we are paying for the service and should receive it.

    (Didn’t get my rubbish collected for over five years and didn’t receive a rebate either).

  29. Let’s make things simple,every thing goes into one bin per household,into refuse wagon,tipped into refuse sorting unit,and employ a lot more people to sort through the refuse like it used to be done and worked well,they could save the money from not buying the wheele bins to pay the extra staff needed for sorting,simples!!

    • Darren Irving


      3.Apr.2016 11:35pm

      OHMY, how many extra staff would you get for all the wheelie bins that have been supplied?
      Would the cost of the bins support an extra workforce ?
      Perhaps we could use horses to get around like it used to be done too?
      Or perhaps we should use leeches to heal us like we used to?
      Ludicrous!

  30. Darren Irving


    4.Apr.2016 12:10am

    Hmmm maybe you know more than I thought!

  31. A little more perspective...


    4.Apr.2016 7:55am

    There are 70000 households on our Island.

    If each produced 140 litres of waste 25 times a year, the total annual waste would be…

    245 million litres!

    An Olympic swimming pool holds 2.5 million litres.

    So our landfill every year could fill almost 100 Olympic swimming pools!

    Where on the IOW would you like to see that amount of rubbish piled? And how about next year? And the year after that?

    If we don’t want to live on a mountain of rubbish, we each have a duty to reduce the amount of stuff we dump. If every one of us reduced by just a few litres each week, we’d send far less to landfill. Shouldn’t we change the mindset from “it’s a pain in the arse sorting out my rubbish” to “I’m proud to spend a few minutes sorting out my rubbish to preserve the beauty of our environment for future generations”?

    Of course this plan only works if people think about civic duty rather than entitlement, so is inherently flawed from the outset.

    • @ A little more perspective, thank you for such a sensible posting. I was one of those moaning about the new bins but your posting has got me thinking and you are right. If we all reduce a little with our waste we can make such a difference. I will try.

    • “Of course this plan only works if people think about civic duty rather than entitlement, so is inherently flawed from the outset.”

      As is voting for who should govern us! Given increasing voter apathy, why are you surprised a similar level of civic duty is applied to the treatment of waste?

      • Why not start by legislation to reduce the inflow of packaging from manufacturers and suppliers, as well as the increasing level of paper based advertising that tumbles through our letterboxes on a daily basis?

        Of course, those who profit from both will squeal loudly to the receptive and protecting government.

        • Vix Lowthion


          4.Apr.2016 8:37am

          Yes this needs to be part of a bigger whole where national government makes regulations with regards to packaging.

          However that doesn’t help us here on the island now. We have an overwhelming amount of waste. And it appears there are a number of households who are dumping waste which could be recycled – hence incidents of 6 black bags a fortnight.

          Packaging, junk mail etc can be put in the Green bin. They should not contribute towards the issue with the black bags.

  32. ontheleft


    4.Apr.2016 10:56am

    simple
    1) put things in recycling even if you think they are marginal.
    2) use public bins as much as possible, particularly car parks and seafront.
    3) go to the tip (sorry recycling centre) more, treat it as a trip out.
    4) flytip big things, but discretely, you know, hidden in bushes etc, remember “something will make a home in it”.
    Overall treat getting rid of rubbish as a hobby, be opportunist, and enjoy.

  33. Have just received new boxes / bins.

    The newspaper insert is not big enough unless the newspaper is folded twice. The old newspaper boxes were perfect.

    The black bin is much poorer quality when compared with the current green bin.

    Progress ?

  34. Read the newspapers online version Bones. No waste.

    Can’t blame the black bin maker for wanting to make a bit more money.
    Can’t blame the top men in Amey for not consulting the people. That’s how things are done these days. I doubt any of them have ever been here except via Google Earth or street view.

    If the black bins are too small for non recyclables then Islanders will find their own individual solutions. If that means an increase in stinky overflowing litter bins around the towns and along the sea fronts and fly tipping then that’s what will be for the next 25 years.
    Just hold your nose and quicken your pace You probably won’t need to get a face mask like you see I’m some Asian Rim countries or in Eastern Europe and the Balkans by some of the officials helping on the migrant route when they can’t bear the smell of the great unwashed. At least it won’t get that bad.

    If the disabled and elderly can’t lug their dustbins up and down 21 steps or even 1 then that’s how it will be. The pavements will become cluttered like they are in some other areas on the mainland.

    If Amey refuse to drive down unmade roads that’s no surprise. It’s been happening on the mainland for years. (I have a friend who lives in a village 10 miles outside Cardiff and the recycle lorry won’t come out that far and never has).
    It’s called Change. Get used to it.

  35. Supermarket packaging – couldn’t we recycle at the supermarket checkout…

    • Suruk the Slayer


      5.Apr.2016 3:56pm

      A nice idea in principle, but can you imagine the queues as folks unpack their multi-packs.

      There are several things that supermarkets (or the Government) could do. One biggie would to be to ban multi-buys (BOGOF). This just encourages waste, with people often buying much more than they need, only for it to end up in landfill.

      There is also an extreme amount of packaging on some items. Printer ink cartridges, particularly those by Hewlett Packard, are absurd for the layers of packaging they are encased in.

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