Isle of Wight’s LED street lighting: Lessons for mainland council say IW Green Party

Patches of darkness in between street lamps and the choice of blue light are just two of the considerations the Isle of Wight Green Party are warning mainland local authorities to think about when making a decision to change to LED street lights.

Wootton from the skies

Daniel James from the Isle of Wight Green Party shares details of a briefing document on LED lighting. Ed


Following the Island Roads PFI roll-out of over 12,000 new LED street lights, the Isle of Wight Green Party has produced a free two-page PDF briefing for communities on the mainland and beyond. This document advises councillors and community activists to scrutinise proposed street lighting replacements with care.

Inadequate lighting
Island residents complain that some LED fittings have too narrow a beam, so that certain streets now alternate between being over-lit directly beneath the lamp-post, and darkness between.

With the introduction of LEDs, the colour of the artificial light has changed from a warm orange-white to a cool blue-white which mimics daylight, affecting human and animal circadian rhythms. Blue-rich light can also affect the view of the night sky, which many Islanders treasure.

Inappropriate technology
The Isle of Wight Green Party believes the PFI, which local people have little democratic oversight of, has deployed inappropriate technology.

It expresses regret that the Philips ‘Luma’ and ‘Stela’ LED lights as fitted cannot be replaced now, without great expense and waste.

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For more information, please contact chair@isleofwight.greenparty.org.uk

Image: © Darren Vaughan – WightDrone

Thursday, 28th April, 2016 8:11am

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Filed under: Environment, Green Issues, Island-wide, Isle of Wight News, Top story

Any views or opinions presented in the comments below are solely those of the author and do not represent those of OnTheWight.

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159 Comments on "Isle of Wight’s LED street lighting: Lessons for mainland council say IW Green Party"

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liam

It’s quite simple. Turn the lot off. Then we can see some more stars and planets.

Steve Goodman

Apple (the world’s biggest company) seem to have got the message; their i-pads and ‘phones now have ‘night shift’.

Steve Goodman
Daniel James
Hi Steve, I’m chair of the Isle of Wight Green Party and helped prepare the briefing. That link from Apple is interesting, I did not know they were offering that feature. Our purpose in writing the briefing was to help explain that saving energy is good, of course, but not all new lighting devices are the same. Blue LED lights are slightly more energy efficient than warmer… Read more »
Concerned Resident
I am glad this has finally been brought out into the light… I will leave it to the experts to tell you why these lights are so wrong but I will say Im Hypersensitive to a lot on things mainly chemicals and to All electrical waves and since having one of the monster LEDs stuck right outside my home, even though I pleaded with Island Roads not… Read more »
Darren Irving

A question specifically for Daniel now, you stated that “Blue LED lights are slightly more energy efficient than warmer colours” could you please supply details of evidence that support this as within all the details I have looked at I cannot substantiate this, I am sure you know your stuff but sometimes just writing it will not instill belief in people!
I’m sure you will understand.

Amberlight
I knew about this lighting as in Cnanda they have sropped it ,because of the affect on circadian rythmns in the brain and because of the affect on wildlife. Its about time time this was dealt with.Unfortunately I have one of these hideous Blue lights outside my house..I had to buy Black out curtains which for the size window has cost me over £100..I realised why I… Read more »
Eleanor Levin
LightAware is a new charity set up to raise awareness of the effects of new lighting technologies on human health. The charity is very concerned about the roll out of LED streetlighting which has not been subject to any quality control procedures whatsoever. We are getting reports from people in various parts of the UK, and round the world, of adverse reactions to LED street lighting. These… Read more »
simonnicholas
Apart from the glare, the nuisance and the ecological impacts of the excessive blue content of the LEDs fitted by Island Roads, what is also clearly evident from the picture is how appalling the ‘uniformity’ of the new LED lights is. The propaganda tries to hide the fundamental shortcomings of current LED luminaire technology by selling it as “better directionality”. The truth, of course, is that uniformity… Read more »
ThomasC
Personally I have no issue with the new lights. They have significantly reduced the amount of light pollution where they have been installed, to the point that, yes, there is a risk of inconsistent lighting along major carriageways around the IW…. but on bike and in car and in and out of fog I haven’t had any issues with it, or found any cause for concern. The… Read more »
tyke

‘Quasi-prototype junk’?! Pseuds Corner alive and well on dear old On the Wight.
Methinks someone needs to get out more. Obviously not at night, of course, as the lights will either a) send them bonkers or b) have them walking into things as they are not bright enough apparently.

Concerned Resident

James C
I think you have over stepped the mark with you abuse of Tanja as she can no longer defend herself or reply to you slanderous comments on here as she has been blocked !

Steve Goodman
Agreed; insults and trying to shoot the messenger will not win the argument, and damages the reputation and credibility of the attacker. Not everyone will agree about this, but many of us are unhappy about the choice to pay to replace and extend existing lighting with something that causes more problems for many people and wildlife, when cheaper and less damaging options are available. As I wrote… Read more »
Hermit

Maybe she should use a different name like you eh, CRS121

Hermit

Apologies, cers121, needs an edit button

Cicero
Tanja (there can’t be more than one) asked a very relevant point, given this discussion, to Reading Borough Council on 14 January 2016, ………… READING BOROUGH COUNCIL TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT SUB-COMMITTEE 14 JANUARY 2016 QUESTION NO. 1 Tanja Rebel to ask the Chair: LED Street Lighting Programme Will Reading Council commit to a specification of its proposed LED street lighting programme, which takes full account of the growing… Read more »
fredwoodworth
The problem with blue-white LED lighting has been raised with Island Roads for some years, without any impact. Whether one likes the lighting or not, it is harsh and clinical. Any street lighting is going to create “daylight” for human “benefit”, and add to light pollution. The main issue with the lighting being used here is its closeness to full-spectrum sunlight. This turns lit areas into 24-hour… Read more »
tyke

Has the council considered dimming the streetlights does anyone know. It would seem a good way of saving money and bowing to the wishes (however unscientific) of Tanja and co.
And why is Tanja blocked? I don’t agree with her but she is always civil and you can’t doubt her enthusiasm!

Steve Goodman
I don’t know about dimming being considered by the IOW council, but it may be possible as it has been done elsewhere. So has turning off lights at certain times and places, and ensuring that lights aren’t on in error during daylight hours. There’s nothing unscientific about the science supporting what’s being said about the effects of the controversial types of LEDs on circadian rhythms, on some… Read more »
tyke
You see Steve, mentioning (repeatedly) Apple is part of the anti-science that is becoming a hallmark of this debate. People stare at iphones and ipads for hours on end, often during the evening or late at night prior to sleep. This is entirely different to people’s contact with LED emitted from streetlamps. To apply Apple’s action (and I take your word they have done this and for… Read more »
Steve Goodman
I expect that the council will tell anybody who asks them. I’ve mentioned Apple (only as often as I’ve needed to when responding, after my initial comment) because the findings and reactions of the world’s biggest and most profitable company to the science proving the adverse effect of ‘blue white’ light on human and wildlife circadian rhythms is relevant, and offers a route into looking closer at… Read more »
milliard
When are we going to move street lights into the twenty first century. Portugal has the answer (see here). Also Germany has this (see here) In general there is no reason for street lights to stay on full time. In the far future, when cars are autonomous, we won’t need them where there are no pedestrians. On the way to that future, car to car and car… Read more »
Stephen Eyles

Tits steet lighting? That sounds interesting!!

Caconym

I think people need to get a sense of perspective. With all that is wrong with the world, lights that are the wrong shade of white are down there with issue like………

You know, I can’t actually think of anything. Help me out here. Can anyone tell me a problem that is actually less important than this?

Josh Aitken

Light is far more profound than you think, Suruk.

Caconym

OK, so give me one example of an issue affecting the IW that is less important than “lights of the wrong colour”?

Bins? Nope.
Crime? Nope.
Trains? Nope.
Roads? Nope.
Public toilets? Nope.
Ferries? Nope.

If I was given the chance to fix any one thing on the IW, I seriously cannot think of anything that would be further down my list than “street lights that are the wrong shade of white”….

Dalek

Totally agree. Stop moaning about street lights being “not quite the shade of white that you’d prefer” and do something useful.

simonnicholas
Suruk, If you actually understood the science behind this issue, you wouldn’t need to ask this question. The answer is: “all of them” – because none of the above issues has the potential to harm ecology and human health on the scale of nightly exposure to artificial light which is effectively creating 24hr daylight. You might want to take time to better understand the issue before trivialising… Read more »
Darren Irving
Suruk, wrong colour temperature lights can have an effect on road safety and crime, as previously mentioned about circadian rhythms sleep deprivation can affect peoples moods (See- http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/bipolar-disorder/circadian-rhythms-factor-rapid-cycling-bipolar-disorder just one small insight to this research, there are indeed many more) Road safety can also be affected: Blue glare interferes with vision The twin effects of fuzzy focus and blue scatter both make intense blue light from a… Read more »
Josh Aitken
Suruk, all these issues are important, they are are all linked. Everything is linked. However, light is important too. It affects us all in various ways, but it affects us. Get the light wrong and you make people ill. You can also disturb animals and the view of the night sky. Humans, animals, stars – all essential. Dalek, having a go at others anonymously does not strike… Read more »
Dalek

Josh, there’s no proof whatever that your name is actually Josh. Similarly, there’s no proof that my name is actually Dalek. Having a go at me because I appear to be anonymous isn’t helpful either. My point is that life is far to short to be worrying about street lights, there are bigger things to do

Caconym

Answer my question. Name me ONE thing that has a lower importance than spending a fortune changing 12000 “lights of the wrong colour”?

You can’t, can you?

CERS121
SkunkSlayer: You say : Name me ONE thing that has a lower importance than spending a fortune changing 12000 “lights of the wrong colour”? Its the responsibility of IR to comply with the contract rules which it seems they have not… This is not to do IWC money its IR money and as I understand it they are a very well off company who can well afford… Read more »
Treebear
So, Dalek, if there are bigger things to do, go and do them! Leave to others what they want to do. Wwe should be grateful that there are people on the island, such as Tanja and Carmelle, who care about getting the lights right so that they are pleasant and healthy for all. With regards to Josh Aitken, he definitely exists and has done heaps for the… Read more »
Dalek

Get over yourself

Caconym
Come on then. Instead of just hitting the down votes, put your money where your mouth is and name one single thing where you’d say “nope, making the street lights the right shade of white is more important than X” Just insert your own X. Oh, and Tanya Rebel isn’t “getting the lights right” they aren’t going to be changed now. There are far, far, far, FAR,… Read more »
Cicero

How about “nope, making the street lights the right shade of white is more important than frequent inspections of IWC’s navel”? :-))

Caconym

And we have a winner.

Unfortunately, quantifying and costing navel inspections could be difficult. :-D

Cicero

No doubt IR could help? :-))

Caconym

I’m sure Virgil and the gang could, indeed help. They’d do it for free, to.

Cicero

Has Eurovia taken over Tracy Island as well as the IOW?

Thunderbirds are “go” from Tennyson Down?

CERS121

Skunk:
It wont cost IWC anything, so why keep asking if IWC money should be spent on other things, its about the failings of IR who are in breach of contract, (as I understand it) for not complying with the rules in the contract, so it is their mess to clean up, which is not taking anything from IWC Services.

Treebear
@Suruk: Josh already told you that all the issues mentioned are important, but that light is as well. What is difficult to understand about that? Not everything needs to fall into a hierarchy. Perhaps, as has been pointed out in this context before, we should practise some joined-up thinking: A society that cares about Crime, Litter, Public Transport and Public Toilets would hopefully also care about Light… Read more »
Caconym
Yes, everything has an order of precedence. Understand me here, I’m not saying that it would not have been better had a different colour temperature been chosen for these lights. What I am saying is it is done now. There are 12000 of them, and there is absolutely no point in spending a fortune changing them when there are so many more important issues on the IW… Read more »
Josh Aitken

To Suruk: One thing (among many many other things) less important than the lights is answering you. For there is no point as you won’t see the light.

Good luck with your Big Things! You have my blessing!

Caconym

Bzzzzzzzzt. Incorrect answer. Answering me is not an issue affecting the Isle of Wight.

Try again.

And pick your toys up before you do!

Treebear

@Suruk: The more you persist, the more light you shine on this cause.

Caconym

No, the more light I shine on the absurdity of this cause.

Because it IS absurd.

By the way. If you look under each post, you will see a “Reply” link. If you click that you will be able to reply in-thread. This makes conversations more readable.

simonnicholas
Suruk, it only appears absurd to those people, such as yourself, who simply do not understand the issue. Those of us who do understand what has happened are all in agreement that this is a very serious issue indeed. Those people include leading academics and scientists all over the world who are publishing scientific research which confirms that there is a problem with blue-rich artificial light at… Read more »
Caconym

I’m not saying there isn’t a problem. I am saying that there are more important things to spend public money on. I asked people to suggest one single thing that the issue with street lamp colour is more important than.

Nobody could offer a single thing.

dave

I’m sure that replacing 12000 lights will NOT be at a small cost. Do we take this money off Social Services or some other equally more worthwhile destination. I think not.
One could argue that only a “relatively small” number of individuals are affected by these highly efficient LEDs.

Cencerned Resident

To Dave: As has already been said,it is Island Roads who should pay. They are in breach of their own contract which clearly states that they need to take into consideration the appropriate Colour Temperature.

NB: These lights do not just affect Public Health but Ecology as well.

Darren Irving

Dave- The issue is so much wider than “individuals” you would be mindful to remember that some of us are willing to fight for inhabitants of our island that cannot speak out, our diverse natural habitat needs our help too!

Darren Irving

Suruk you indeed should know all too well about absurd, you and your comments are absurdity personified!
If you see this thread as absurd why do you feel the need to get involved in it?

Treebear
@Suruk Only someone with little or no knowledge on the subject would argue that it is absurd. Perhaps you should do a little more reading on the topic. Barring that, you could leave it to others to sort whilst you devote yourself to bigger causes? Belittling other people’s campaigns strikes me as something far less important – and far less constructive – than devoting yourself to valid… Read more »
Caconym

OK. So I ask again. What do YOU, with your vast knowledge on this issue, with regard to the biological harm these lamp units cause, consider this issue to be more important than.

Give a poor ignoramus like me a clue. Just how dangerous are these lights. Do they, for example, do more harm than diesel particulates? Do they do more harm than the lack of public toilets?

Treebear

By the way, nobody is asking the Council to pay for IR’s mistakes. Their contract clearly states that they need to take into account the appropriate Colour Temperature. Thus, the onus falls upon them.

simonnicholas
Treebear, I totally agree. As I posted above in response to one of Suruk’s other comments: “As for the cost of putting right the mess, it should obviously fall on Island Roads – who are part of French multinational, Vinci – because it is they who failed to carry out the necessary due diligence on the negative impacts of their chosen specification. This is an emerging field… Read more »
Cicero

Is there not a British Standard for street lighting that Island Road would have to observe?

simonnicholas
Cicero, Yes there is. Its BS5489-1: 2013. The current (2013) edition is a relatively recent revision to an existing standard,and the changed have effectively ‘moved the goal posts’ in a conscious and deliberate attempt to promote the use of blue-rich LED light sources. One has to question the level of influence that the LED industry had in the changes to the previous (2003) version of the standard,… Read more »
Darren Irving
Cicero- is it not true they “moved the goal posts” when changing the applicable standards because blue rich LED’s are for some reason slightly cheaper to produce than the healthier CCT ones? Again mankind’s greed affecting eco systems worldwide! Some people would do well to remember that this is not an issue confined to just our locality! There are new lighting metrics, such as circadian light (CLA),… Read more »
Cicero

Who moved the goalposts Darren?

Cicero

To quote Manuel “I know nothing” about street lighting (except as a photographer who “paints with light” and knows a bit about Kelvin values of light) so this discussion prompted me to dig a bit more.

I found a useful report -to me anyway- that throws some light (sorry!) on the subject and its economies.

Google “landscapethejournal.org/Knowledge1_Au2013”

Darren Irving
Cicero- I do apologise it was Simon nicholas that commented, the thread is getting so long now! But I would have to say it looked like one of your factual posts! (yes a compliment) To quote his comment: “One has to question the level of influence that the LED industry had in the changes to the previous (2003) version of the standard, as the ‘rules’ have been… Read more »
Cicero

Darren (and others)…. going back to basics- where is documentary evidence describing the Kelvin rating of the IR street lights currently installed?

Thanks

Darren Irving

Cicero- I believe it was covered in a previous thread on this subject, (there have been many OTW as you know) The current LED light temps are 5700K (in the cool range of the scale)
They should for the benefit of life (be it plant or human/animal) be in the neutral zone of the Kelvin rating, research I believe says 3700K is the most acceptable Kelvin rating.

Cicero

(Darren) Searching OTW for “LED” or “Street Lights” yields only this thread stimulated by the Green Party.

So my question still stands- where is the documentary specification of the LEDs actually installed on IoW streets?

Darren Irving

Cicero- Indeed you are correct the search does not yield the posts I was referring to!
Anyhow the lights they have used on the Island are Philips Stela LED units with Correlated Colour Temperature of 5700K.
I will post details of literature in my next post just so you can see my explanation first, as if I put the link in here it will have to be moderated first!

Darren Irving
Cicero

(Darren) “Anyhow the lights they have used on the Island are Philips Stela LED units with Correlated Colour Temperature of 5700K.”

Thanks Darren.

The Philips website tells me that the Stela+ gen 2 long offers three models with Correlated Color Temperatures
3000 (Warm White, 4000 (Neutral White) or 5700 K (Cool White).

Where is it documented that the Cool White version has been installed?

Darren Irving

http://www.islandroads.com/37-street-lighting-improvement-programme.html

Under the “What are the benefits?” heading, at the end of the second paragraph there is a “For more information about the new street lights, click here.” line, If you do indeed click there the following document states they are using “cool white” under the “Is there a health risk associated with this type of LED lighting?” top right of that document.
Hope that helps?

Darren Irving

Cicero- looking into the Google search you also suggested “landscapethejournal.org/Knowledge1_Au2013”
The chap who wrote the article Guy Harding has an interest in the sale of LED’s as I believe he works for Marshalls PLC a supplier of large scale lighting products, perhaps his view of whether these kind of products are fit and indeed safe may be skewed due to it affecting potential profits?

Caconym

Indeed. And who is going to pay for the legal action for force them to pay? They certainly won’t cough up unless they are forced to.

simonnicholas
Suruk, there is the argument that IR are in breach of contract in respect of the specification. The PFI contract document (available online) states that the CCT should be “appropriate”. There is obviously a strong argument that 5700K is NOT “appropriate” – and I guess that point might be one for IWC’s lawyers to add to the list of grievances they already appear to be in a… Read more »
Caconym

That did not answer the question. Who is going to pay for the legal action against Island Roads if they do not admit liability.

They, almost certainly, will not admit liability, so legal action will be needed. Who will pay for that.

ThomasC

Link to the scientific evidence linking the light to cancer, please?

At the moment this article and comments thread is peppered with pseudo science and a huge evidence void.

This sort of stuff is the worst shade of the Green Party.

Darren Irving
ThomasC- The hypothesis that the suppression of melatonin (MLT) by exposure to light at night (LAN) may be one reason for the higher rates of breast and colorectal cancers in the developed world deserves more attention. The literature supports raising this subject for awareness as a growing public health issue. Evidence now exists that indirectly links exposures to LAN to human breast and colorectal cancers in shift… Read more »
ThomasC
I’m confused – you’re simultaneously suggesting that the LED lights aren’t providing enough light because they throw less light, whilst suggesting that they are providing simulated daylight which might increase cancer? Which is it? Just looking down on Newport you can see the visual reduction in the volume of light, as well as the change in colour of the lights used. To me the reduction in the… Read more »
Darren Irving
Thomas- if you had understood it’s not about amount of light or lumens it is about colour temperature (that is why it is measured in Kelvin-the measurement for heat) I have cited one set of research, there are many more. You seem intelligent enough to use the Internet for research on many subjects, I have done research on this and am still continuing to, I have limited… Read more »
Treebear

To Cicero: It is a good question. There definitely needs to be one, but if there is it is too weak.

In this context it is worth pointing out that the cross-parliamentary group that used to convene on Lighting has been disbanded. It urgently needs to be reinstated.

simonnicholas
Treebear, one of the key issues here is the lack of regulation and standards in an area which, arguably – until the manipulation of the Pholobioloigal Risk assessment standards – was pretty safe. What has subsequently happened is that the LED industry has promoted blue-pump LED technology on the basis of its marginally-better energy efficiency in spite of the litany of shortcomings which are inherent in the… Read more »
Caconym

Oh, please do get some perspective. “Scandal”?

Minor whoopsie, maybe, scandal, no.

simonnicholas
Suruk, again I would respectfully suggest that you are not in a position to make a such judgement on the potential gravity of the subject, because you clearly do not understand the issues in sufficient depth. If you were to fully understand the potential damage that these lights can cause, I doubt that you’d be so scathing of those of us who are trying to expose what… Read more »
Caconym

What is the “potential damage” and where does it stand compared to other threats?

Darren Irving
Seems there are some very small minded people that do not actually realise the impact of using the wrong colour temperature lights, personally I am disgusted that any one person would put their own needs or wants above harming the natural world, the colour temperature is harmful to both flora and fauna. Natural ecology dying off IS important to all of us and that will be apparent… Read more »
Caconym
So the wrong colour street lights are going to cause a collapse of the island’s eco-system which, in turn, will put off tourists? That is what is going to happen if these lights are not changed, it it? Guess we’d better call an extraordinary general meeting of COBRA and have them turned off immediately. I certainly don’t want crazed sleep deprived squirrels ripping my face off, that’s… Read more »
Darren Irving
Suruk- All I can say is I hope you suffer from the effects, ecology is a very fine balance, something I would not expect you to understand, your belligerent attitude already suggests you may have issues, maybe it is indeed to do with your upset circadian rhythm already, you just can’t see it yet. Zombies are not real or do you not realise that ? Wrong lighting… Read more »
Robert Jones
I’m not a Green in the party political sense of the term, but these lights are a) intrusive, and b) useless, and should never have been installed. If IR has contravened its contract by installing them, and that isn’t clear to me not having read it, then something can be done, and should be. If they haven’t – we seem to be stuck with them but can… Read more »
Caconym

Well, I have repeatedly asked for someone to give me an example of an issue affecting the IW that is less important than this.

Not one person has offered an answer. Insults, yes, diversions, yes, straw men, yes, but not one single answer to an exceedingly simple question.

That suggests that this issue is, indeed, as trivial and blown out of all proportion as I first suspected.

Treebear
To Simon Nicholas: Agreed, there is a blatant lack of appropriate standards and regulations on the application of blue-rich light, which needs to be urgently addressed. Reinstating the cross-parliamentary group on Lighting would go some way, but what is really needed is an updated National Policy on the issue. It would indeed be good to see Councils – and Government – adopt a holistic approach where energy… Read more »
Treebear
To Robert Jones: As Simon Nicholas points out, the PFI contract documentation is accessible via the IWC website. The following wording on page 130 is particularly relevant in respect of the street lighting specification – and in particular the choice of CCT. It explicitly states: PS4.5.2 LED Lighting PS4.5.2.1 Where LED lighting is used consideration must be given to the appropriate colour temperature of the lighting points,… Read more »
Cicero

Same old problem…. who is the ultimate decision-maker on the balance between “appropriate” and “consideration”, “efficiency” and “value for money” for contractual purposes?

Given four options, are there not 15 potential outcomes of which “appropriate” is only one?

Treebear

To Cicero: It is subject to interpretation, of course. Having said that, appropriate light should ideally be benign to Humans and Animals as well as good for Road Safety and Sky Glow. Cool-white fails on all of these accounts…

If IR want the best for the Island – and retain the Islanders’ goodwill – they know what to do…

Treebear

What’s more, if the Island wants to attain true Eco-Island Status, the Council better insist on it.

Cicero

Usual difference between fact and opinion treebear.

I am still waiting for *factual* evidence to be presented of the Kelvin temperature of street lights installed on the Island.

Treebear
To ThomasC: There are many international academic studies pointing to the adverse impact of blue-rich Light on Health and Ecology. It is not pseudo-science. But why this emphasis on evidence when it should be self-evident that daylight at night is not good for us? However, if you are hooked on science, kindly show us the evidence which shows blue-rich Light to be absolutely safe. Ever heard of… Read more »
ThomasC
Where is the evidence that the yellow of sodium lighting was any safer for people moving at night than the light from the LEDs? The street lights provided on the Islands DO NOT provide daylight. They are significantly dimmer overall than the sodium lights they have replaced. Daylight is a quite different thing to LED provided light. So, bring on some science, because a paper that tries… Read more »
Darren Irving
Again colour temperature is what it is about Thomas, different colour temperature LED lights are just as energy efficient, you are missing the point it is not just about human effects either. Maybe you are not soaking all the information up or maybe thinking of just human self worth, being someone that grew up in the country I would of thought you would be concerned about the… Read more »
simonnicholas
Thomas, firstly, part of the reason “they use a lot less energy” is because they produce a lot less light than their predecessors, and in many cases it is insufficient for the task. By your own admission they are much dimmer than the previous sodium lights. Many other councils are achieving similar energy savings by simply (and prudently) reducing the wattage of the bulbs in their existing… Read more »
Treebear

To Cicero,

I am not sure where it is documented. However, I called and spoke to IR themselves a while ago. They confirmed that all lights installed on the island are 5700K.

Cicero

Thanks

Darren Irving

Treebear- I have now provided information to documentation in my conversation with Cicero above, if you should ever need to instantly refer to this, OK?

Treebear

To Darren Irving: Thank you.

Cicero
The Island Roads website comments “Can you control the brightness of the lights? Island Roads will also operate a central management system which allows us to control the lighting levels and the times when lighting is on for individual streets. This will help us all continue to improve energy consumption and curb carbon emissions, whilst providing street lighting that meets the needs of individual towns and villages.”… Read more »
Treebear

Thank you, Cicero!

Controlling the lighting level of the lights is indeed already possible. Controlling the CCT can only be done through change of bulb or by installing a filter. This is what is urgently needed if we want benign and pleasant Lighting on our island, not to mention a welcoming feel….

Darren Irving

Treebear- Indeed brightness levels will not affect the CCT, to change the CCT of our already installed 5700K lights to a more acceptable 3700K you would need a filter with a Mired Shift value of 95.
Technical wording but also perfectly viable !

Cicero
As a photographer with thus an interest in light values, I took a shot of the street light outside my house and analysed the light content with post-processing software. This is a hopeless *unscientific analysis* given the probable vagaries of the camera sensor, the camera lens and the software, so it is offered *only for anecdotal* purposes. The light seems to be composed in the following percentages… Read more »
Darren Irving
Cicero- a fellow snapper (which camp are you in of the 2 majors, Nikon or Canon?) Very good try at an experiment! The human eye perceives colour differently than your cameras cmos, the software you have used I believe has analysed the light output in the terms of printing colour output as opposed to the “human” standard of red, green, blue as seen by our eyes cones.… Read more »
Cicero
Probably true Darren-It is obvious I am no scientist! :-)) Where can one find the composition of 5700K light as perceived by the eye. ” We have evolved on a planet awash with blue light and as a result evolution has given us eyes that are only half as sensitive to blue as they are to red and green to help compensate. This 40% Red, 40% Green,… Read more »
Darren Irving
Cicero- I think the eye actually is sensitive to colours like this: Red – Well over half Green – Around a third Blue – about 2%! That said everyone is different and I for one see shades of red and green differently to others (remember the coloured dot pictures the opticians used to use? I never could see the numbers in certain red and green ones!) Most… Read more »
Cicero
Pls help me with the logic Darren. If eye sensitivity is as you say Red – Red Well over half Green – Around a third Blue – about 2%! Doesn’t that mean the eye is substantially *less* sensitive to the cool end of the colour spectrum and substantially *more* sensitive to the warm end? If that is true why is the eye so sensitive to blue part… Read more »
Darren Irving
Cicero- yes I will try and help, I am no guru on this but do have an insight into this, I have looked into this is some detail a few years ago due to an employer installing a load of LED’s (both flood and spot) some employees were starting to show signs of issues, so much detailed inspection of facts began. Blue light in a nutshell has… Read more »
simonnicholas

Cicero, Spectral analysis of light sources can be carried out and plotted on Spectral Power Distribution (SPD) curve.

Unsurprisingly, LED manufacturers are rather coy about publishing SPD data for their street lighting luminaires.

In January I invited Island Roads to submit one of their 5700K LEDs for a full spectral analysis in order to measure blue content and other metrics such as melanopic flux.

Unsurprisingly they declined.

Darren Irving

Simon – thankyou for that I had commented and suggested you may be “the man” and gave a link to “I’m not anti LED, but” luxreview article, because of that my comment has gone into moderation (it happens sometimes when posting weblinks)
I do hope you are the same person in that article!

Cicero

Thanks Simon.

Darren- I try to avoid the auto-drop of comments using links into moderation by taking out some of the link data and suggest people google instead.

Cicero

I found an excellent primer on lighting and health for non-scientists that talks about cirdadian rhythms, full spectrum lighting and its effects and so on.

Try googling
instantdaylite.com/downloads/Presentation-on-full-spectrum-lighting.pdf

It is presented by a commercial company to support its products but still worth reading for the information and visuals it contains.

simonnicholas

Darren, Cicero, yes I am the same person who is profiled in the article in Lux magazine.

Treebear

To Darren: I didn’t know about the Mired Shift value, thank you. I do know that IDA (International Dark Sky Association) recommends max 3000K as anything above that causes more Light Pollution due to the so-called “Rayleigh Effect”.

Some Councils, like Westminster, are opting for the even more pleasant 2700K. Anything above 3000K has a markedly increased blue-spike.

Treebear
Suruk, you have been answered. Twice. Once by me and once by Simon Nicholas: “Suruk, If you actually understood the science behind this issue, you wouldn’t need to ask this question. The answer is: “all of them” – because none of the above issues has the potential to harm ecology and human health on the scale of nightly exposure to artificial light which is effectively creating 24hr… Read more »
Cicero
A thought. Somebody mentioned “circadian entrainment” long does ‘circadian entrainment” take? e,g, Submariners are entrained to an 18 hour day as most submarines operate on a 3 x 6-hour watch system. (Binkley 1997). From personal experience, travelling across multiple time zones for a living, I found that my circadian clock usually took a couple of days to acclimatise unless it was extreme like trips to OZ and… Read more »
Hermit

If as Concerned Resident aka cers121 has stated that Tanja Rebel has been blocked from this site, has no one realised she is so obviously Tree Bear, and just as on other sites, Tanja, Simon Nicholas, and Carmelle all talk to each other and reply to each other as if they were strangers. Quite sad really

simonnicholas

Hermit, if you check, you’ll find that I have been responding to points raised by Thomas C, Suruk and Cicero.

Cicero

True!

Treebear
To Darren: I cannot give you exact figures, but the difference between cool-white and warm-white in energy use is becoming less and less, to the extent that Cardiff Council, which has opted for warm-white after Public Consultation on the matter, has stated that the difference is negligible. To Cicero: No idea how long it takes to adjust, but why should we ever need to adjust to daylight… Read more »
Darren Irving

My thoughts are that the monetary cost or saving should not be at the expense of human, fauna or flora wellbeing!

Cicero

Treebear- try googling “landscapethejournal.org/Knowledge1_Au2013”
for some figures.

Cicero

Apparently submariners and night shift-workers need to adjust their circadian rhythms as do long-haul passengers and crew by choice.

But I agree the the general public should not be forced to do so.

Some interesting stuff on the timings of the mock-daylight on those rhythms.

Treebear

Well said, Darren Irving! Ecology and Public Health have value in themselves.

Cicero

Has anybody done an independent and reliable Cost-Benefit Analysis on the “value” of Ecology and Public Health?

Or is the statement just like ‘Motherhood and Apple Pie” the value” of which few people doubt but rarely can prove?

Treebear

To Cicero, I am sure it has been attempted in our money-obsessed world. However, some things are beyond money value. All is not quantifiable. There is something called quality.

Treebear

Quality of Life and Quality of Light. They are linked.

Cicero

Interesting philosophical view! :0(9

Treebear

Thomas C: Reduction of Light Pollution can be achieved with warm-white LED’s as well. In actual fact, it is more effective as blue-rich, short-wavelength light scatters more easily in the atmosphere due to so-called “Rayleigh-scattering” and thus creates more Light Pollution than warm-white Light. As stated, the International Dark Sky Association recommends a CCT of max 3000K, for good reason.

Treebear
Cicero: I am not sure why we are most sensitive to blue-rich Light, but think it is because we have evolved to wake up with (blue-rich) daylight, so perhaps only a small amount is needed to have that effect. Again, quality before quantity! By the way, I found the following in an article about Human Centric Lighting: “Different metrics can be used to distinguish between the different… Read more »
Darren Irving

Treebear – try Googling this: The Rods and Cones of the Human Eye – HyperPhysics

This gives an insight to the eyes functions and may just explain a few things for you.
I hope it helps?

Enrico

Dear All,
Please follow the link below for a primer on the non-visual effects of lighting. You will see that outdoor lighting installations should yield wavelengths primarily above 500nm whenever possible.
If you would like original scientific references or further discussion then please respond and I will oblige.
http://www.sps.ch/artikel/diverse-artikel/ueber-den-einfluss-des-lichtes-auf-den-menschen/lighting-application-for-non-visual-effects-of-light/

Kind Regards,
Enrico Petrucco
Senior Scientist

Cicero

Fascinating- thank you Enrico.

Sundance Kid

Cicero: The Enlightenment was necessary and has got us where we are – for good and for bad. Science is essential, but so is intuition. I suggest a healthy balance…

Cicero

Mmmm! Intuition… something I intuitively believe in -even though it is an amalgam of yet unexplained, and thus somewhat murky, parapsychological influences in our evolution.

Are animals, other than human beings, also intuitive or just better at interpreting data from their senses?

However human intuition is still opinion rather than fact as peoples’ gut-feels tell them different things.

Cicero

re animal circadian rhythms.

See the Royal Society’ report “Animal activity around the clock with no overt circadian rhythms: patterns, mechanisms and adaptive value.”

Google rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/280/1765/20130019

So is the claim that “5700K Cool White street lights” affect fauna sustainable?

simonnicholas

Cicero, did you miss the second sentence of the research that paper you cited? The one which reads:

“Animals that are forced to be active around the clock typically show reduced performance, health and survival.”

Cicero
Simon…. my attention was also drawn to the third and subsequent sentences of creatures showing prolonged intervals of activity with attenuated or nil overt circadian rhythms with no apparent ill effects Note *No apparent ill effects”*. “Nevertheless, we review evidence of (such) animals showing prolonged intervals of of activity with attenuated or nil overt circadian rhythms with no apparent ill effects * Polar animals during continuous light… Read more »
simonnicholas
Cicero, aren’t you clutching at straws here? From my assessment of it, all the research concludes is that *some species* at *certain times* do not appear to be unduly affected by circadian entrainment disturbance. It by no means concludes that *no* species are so affected – indeed it begs the question as to how relevant the research is to the impact of the 5700K LED lights on… Read more »
Cicero

True Simon!

So I wonder what the effect of the 5700K lights is on the circadian rhythms of the Island’s urban fox population.

simonnicholas

Cicero, I believe intuition is a useful guide for many people.

In the case of my first experience of seeing glaring 5700K LED street lights in Dalmellington, Ayrshire in 2012, I intuitively sensed that there was something wrong with them.

Four years of studying all the science surrounding the topic of blue-rich light at night has since validated that intuitive sense that something was seriously wrong with these lights.

Cicero
I welcome your knowledge of the subject to remedy my hitherto ignorance. Thanks for that. However, you are justifying your intuition post-facto using science. As I said, nobody can really define what comprises “intuition”. Presumably other citizens of Dalmellington ( e.g. Scottish Dark Sky Observatory at Dalmellington, Ayrshire) did not have a similar intuitions either in 2012 or in March 2015 at the time of the solar… Read more »
Sundance Kid

To Hermit: Indeed,is is sad when people have to write anonymously – especially when they attack others or try to reveal their identity. Even more especially when that identity has been concealed involuntarily.

Some of us would prefer to stand for what we believe and don’t believe in attacking others – anonymously or not. We would like to focus on the cause.

Sundance Kid

Back to the cause: Many thanks to sensible scientific input from Simon, Enrico and Darren. As well as some intuitive gems.