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Claims of ‘flawed calculations’ for proposed foot passenger charges on floating bridge

At Monday night’s Isle of Wight council Executive Committee meeting, members voted in favour of carrying out a public consultation on a proposal to introduce foot passenger fares of 50p each way for over 18s on the floating bridge at Cowes.

Cllr Hillard, the Independent ward councillor for East Cowes, expressed her ongoing concerns with the calculations used in the papers when considering potential income from charging foot passengers (this was originally raised at the February budget meeting, but figures on the paperwork have remained the same).

Out-dated numbers
According to Cllr Hillard the figures used were taken from a survey carried out four or five years ago. She stressed they were estimates and the number of cars on the Island had since increased by 3% per year. In addition, she understood the figures did not account for seasonality or the effect of school reorganisation.

Cllr Hillard told members she was not convinced the introduction of charging foot passengers was “viable, either practically or financially” and believed that further work needed to be carried out by officers before a consultation should take place.

Unconsidered costs to the council
Adding more context to her argument, she told members the cost to the council for those with bus passes, travelling free by bus rather than paying to use the floating bridge as foot passengers, had not been taken into consideration.

She said,

“This would work out as a recharge to the council of four individual journeys to get from Cowes to East Cowes and return. We also have to consider the cost of introducing ticket machines and the additional staff to enforce payment.

“It’s therefore unlikely that the predicted income of £400,000 per annum is accurate and it could be considerably less. I think it is likely there could even be a loss in the first year due to capital expenditure on the infrastructure.”

Call for deferment
Cllr Hillard proposed deferring the consultation, “until it has been demonstrated clearly that charging foot passengers is financially viable and functionally practical.”

Senior officer responsible for the paper, John Metcalfe, told members the consultation was a minuted decision at the 26th February full council meeting.

Cllr Stubbings: “A consulting council”
Deputy leader, Cllr Stubbings, replied to the call for deferment, saying,

“We are a consulting council. This administration is absolutely committed to consulting on any decisions that we make that are of significant nature in terms of affecting Island residents and bearing in mind the fact that all we are requesting here is a move towards a consultation, notwithstanding all that Cllr Hillard has said and I understand that those objections may well come back to us at some point, what we’re talking about here is conducting a consultation with the people of the Isle of Wight, so they have an opportunity to have an input into the decisions that we make.

“There will never be anything wrong with that.”

Concerns over calculations echoed
Councillor for Whippingham, Cllr Baker-Smith, said the council would be going out to consultation with incorrect information and until the Executive was 100% sure the information before them was correct, it should not be shared with the public.

She echoed Cllr Hillard’s view that the £400,000 predicted revenue from charging foot passengers 50p each way to use the floating bridge was not achievable, and that the paper hadn’t fully considered the level of attrition should the charges be implemented.

She added,

“I am concerned that should the figures given be put forward to the public in the consultation this could potentially mislead the public.”

Questions posed to Executive
Cllr Baker-Smith finished by putting a number of questions to the Executive. She asked:

  • Have the Executive seen the financial justification and a full breakdown of how the £400,000 figure was arrived at?
  • Are the Executive aware of the cost of implementing any of the charges?
  • Will this be made available as part of the public consultation?
  • What is the cost of undertaking the consultation?
  • Is it really the intention of the Executive to implent charges following the consultation, because if not there’s no point wasting money on undertaking the consultation [cost of public consultation is estimated to be £2,000. Ed]

Cllr Blezzard praised her “compelling questions” and added there were “compelling arguments” for not introducing foot passenger charges on the floating bridge.

Consulting on the principle
John Metcalfe told members,

“It’s not really about sharing with people what the business plan says about how much money it could generate, or might generate, it’s about consulting on the principle, the framework of if we did choose to apply charges, how that would applied and how that would be implemented.”

He went on to add that a further report would return to the Executive following any consultation.

The principle will change
Cllr Baker-Smith was given a last word,

“Mr Metcalfe pointed out that this is just the principle of charges, but the principle would be very different depending on a) the potential revenue and b) the use of that revenue. People’s responses would reflect that principle.”

She argued that residents would respond differently to the introduction of charging for foot passengers if it was only going to raise, for example £20,000, instead of the £400,000 calculated by officers.

Consultation approved in current form
It appeared that instead of taking on board the points being made Cllrs Hillard and Baker-Smith, members of the Executive focused on the importance of consulting with the public over whether to introduce charges for foot passengers.

The motion to consult with the public was approved by eight members, with one against and one abstention.

Image: Images of Money under CC BY 2.0

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Albert Street
9, July 2014 10:17 am

I believe that both East Cowes councillors are correct in their submissions. As usual this officer controlled council follow like sheep. Unless we have the right information how are we to know exactly what we are being consulted on? The residents of East Cowes voted for Councillors Hillard and Baker-Smith to represent their views. I know that both of them are smarter than their colleagues give them… Read more »

Luisa Hillard
Reply to  Albert Street
9, July 2014 7:49 pm

I think there could be a compliment in there somewhere, Albert Street.

Please be assured that our colleagues are very respectful and as I am in fact one of the Executive I do feel that my opinions are considered.

However, we don’t always agree and because we are independent that is allowed. I find the system works quite well overall.

Dawn Tanner
9, July 2014 12:37 pm

Public consultation in East Cowes is vital. At the last public meeting the council had NO figures , but the local councillor’s/public had !!. If charges are introduced, the people with bus passes wont use the floating bridge, if it’s classed as a cycle track then surely it should be free ?.

Colin
9, July 2014 12:55 pm

And if the “consultation” is anything like that for parking charges, the council will completely ignore any or all of the views put forward.

basil
9, July 2014 2:37 pm

That’d be just over 2000 people every day of the year travelling to reach the 400000 ….yeah right I’m sure that many people travel! Doesn’t take a genius to work it out….typical iowcc and finance! Haven’t got a clue!

sam salt
9, July 2014 3:08 pm

I would imagine the figure quoted by officers includes cars etc, therefore total projected revenue. We all know how useless officers are when calculating usage, they take one day and multiply by 365 not taking into account seasonal variations, or even daily variations. I assume no allowance has even made for breakdowns, the ferries annual maintenance etc. This has been a problem at the IWC for years.… Read more »

sam salt
9, July 2014 3:11 pm

Albert Street, don’t tell me you have a relationship with Newport West. I always think you sound like a certain Chris Whitehouse. isn’t Albert Street in his ward?

Albert Street
Reply to  sam salt
9, July 2014 7:19 pm

@just a little one. I find it incredulous that you try and draw a parallel between my views and that of the member of Newport West. One could draw a parallel between you and the deputy leader of the council! Just for clarity I am a disaffected Independent voter. My views on this administration are clearly reinforced by the way councillors Hillard and Baker-Smith appear to have… Read more »

sam salt
Reply to  Albert Street
9, July 2014 8:00 pm

Ha ha Albert, I really do hope that Steve and I are not one and the same because I favour wearing skirts.

davidwalter
Reply to  sam salt
10, July 2014 9:45 am

Don’t let’s go down there :-(

tryme
Reply to  Albert Street
9, July 2014 8:27 pm

A disaffected Indie voter?! You were in a remarkably bad mood about the Indies as soon as the results were known, Albert Street, and the evidence of it is still here and can be dug up! It was suggested at the time that you were a defeated Tory, so evident was your stance.

Albert Street
Reply to  tryme
9, July 2014 8:45 pm

@tryme. You are right. Almost immedietly after the elections this administration started distancing themselves from their flagship document – Framework for Change.
Their Framework for Change is apparently not supported by the leadership and yet thousands of people like me voted on the believe that it was a meaningful document and not just their aspirations as stated after they were elected.

tryme
Reply to  Albert Street
9, July 2014 10:16 pm

Not convinced, Albert Street. I might have to start digging at the weekend, as I think I should evidence it! I suspect (and have done for a long time) that you have taken what you think to be the most acceptable route to criticising the Indies, ie. posing as a saddened ex-supporter; more persuasive to onlookers than simply being a political – worse, Tory, after the last… Read more »

Albert Street
Reply to  Albert Street
10, July 2014 8:44 am

@tryme. You could not be more wrong in your assumptions

tryme
Reply to  Albert Street
12, July 2014 11:27 am

Apart from “Let us all hope that the love-in does not last too long” on June 7th 2013, about how you found it unhealthy that the tone of the new Council was no longer full of antagonism, (I’m paraphrasing!), I could not spend even more time looking for items of that period. Mind you, odd that an Indie voter of a month previously hadn’t realised this sort… Read more »

tryme
Reply to  Albert Street
12, July 2014 11:46 am

Google shows that Albert Street made another sour remark (which we are all entitled to make, of course), about the Indies on only May 11th 2013 – “Let us all hope that the love-in does not last too long” on a piece that gave commenters the opportunity to thank the ‘fallen’ Chris Welsford for what he had done for the Indies in their campaign. Doesn’t sound at… Read more »

paranoid android
Reply to  Albert Street
12, July 2014 12:10 pm

Detective Tryme strikes with her paranoia once again. Why can’t you simply let people give their opinions, and let others agree or disagree? Why must you spend so much time insinuating so much? Why can you not accept that peoples views may change over time? Not everyone twists every story and comment to reflect their own agenda of seeing sexism or something else offensive everywhere they look.… Read more »

tryme
Reply to  Albert Street
13, July 2014 1:16 am

Sorry, cut and paste mistake. The May 11th 2013 quote should have been ” Lost among all the back-slapping ….”

Albert Street
Reply to  Albert Street
13, July 2014 9:18 am

@tryme. Why not cut and paste my entire post as opposed to being selective and choosing the bit that feeds your particular needs?

tryme
Reply to  Albert Street
13, July 2014 11:19 am

I think I’ve gone on about this more than enough, Albert Street. And it wasn’t because I had you down as a marked man, (of course not), but because I felt a responsibility to evidence my initial response to you the other day, as I said I would, and then found it much more time-consuming to get at the evidence than I’d thought via OTW search. You… Read more »

davidwalter
10, July 2014 9:57 am

Regardless of Albert Street’s position on transubstantiation the point is that the public were very clear indeed about their position on parking and were ignored other than the 6-8pm parking charge. Why should this be any different? Cllr Hillard and her colleagues are correct in questioning the revenue. Those of you who use the buses (probably not many; I do, on the Key) will see that over… Read more »

NOBODY CARES
12, July 2014 12:13 pm

Tryme – NOBODY CARES.

Albert – I think you are wrong, misinformed, and paranoid, but please keep posting your comments. Dont let Tryme bully you.

tryme
Reply to  NOBODY CARES
12, July 2014 12:22 pm

Crikey, Nobody Cares, I certainly wouldn’t call Albert Street paranoid! That’s probably the kind of support he could do without. I also wish him to be free to continue posting comments, what’s that got to do with the price of fish? I hope anyone would feel free to ask me too, to square comments I’ve made that seem contradictory. I would’t mind if only one reader would… Read more »

NOBODY CARES
Reply to  tryme
12, July 2014 12:41 pm

I think anyone should be able to post their opinion without being pulled up on it by you googleing a comment from months ago. Peoples opinions change. Your attitude is consistently that if anyone changes what they think even slightly, you jump on them. Its little wonder that people dont comment because you are on here (I know several people who dont). Why exactly can you not… Read more »

tryme
Reply to  NOBODY CARES
12, July 2014 1:02 pm

It was about a matter of fact, not an opinion, NC. And you are making it up when you allege that I jump on people if they change their opinion.

I am familiar with your style of groundless allegations.

NOBODY CARES
Reply to  tryme
12, July 2014 1:12 pm

You accused Albert of being a tory, and posting here under false pretences, then set out to ‘prove’ that by rubbishing what he had said. You also DO jump on people when they change their opinion, or even when they just express an opinion that you disagree with. The most insidious thing that you do regularly is to imply that someone is making groundless accusations. I am… Read more »

Albert Street
Reply to  NOBODY CARES
12, July 2014 1:56 pm

@NC. Thanks for your comments. Tryme is obviously one of the administration or related to one. I will continue to post my observations irrespective of Tryme’s objections because he has nothing constructive to add to the debate. One can draw parallels with the subject of flawed calculations and the emergency meeting of the executive to hand over Cowes Enterprise College. In my opinion there are far too… Read more »

Cynic
Reply to  Albert Street
12, July 2014 2:06 pm

I am neither ” one of the administration or related to one.” but observing “Albert Street'” comments over the last years or so, I tend to agree with tryme. At times AS’ comments might well have been written by somebody long-gone and not of pleasant memory who tries to disguise his background as a paper-clip salesman and professional politician under the new persona of ‘educational consultant”. No… Read more »

Albert Street
Reply to  Cynic
12, July 2014 2:22 pm

Oh dear yet another clutcher of straws.

NOBODY CARES
Reply to  Albert Street
12, July 2014 2:19 pm

Your all as bad as eachother. If you really think David Pugh posts comments on here disguised behind other names, you really need to get a life. If you want to make insinuations without an ounce of proof then fine. If on the other hand you have concrete proof (ie, not something based on someone changing their opinion (TM), or just an outlandish accusation based on nothing… Read more »

Cynic
Reply to  NOBODY CARES
12, July 2014 2:57 pm

Did I mention David Pugh? No- you came to that conclusion all by yourself. YOU might think that but I couldn’t POSSIBLY comment! :-)

Other regular OTW correspondents might remember Matt;7.16 “You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?”

Perhaps the sourness of the grapes gives it away? :-))

Cynic
Reply to  Cynic
12, July 2014 3:09 pm

Bingo! Troll captured! :-))

NOBODY CARES
Reply to  Cynic
12, July 2014 3:41 pm

troll captured? I am someone who is intensely irritated by those posters on here who continually accuse others of being someone else, or having some sort of hidden agenda. They do so because they are unable to form a coherent thought to oppose others opinions, and instead try to belittle those others – much like yourself. Perhaps you should look up what a troll is. They live… Read more »

Cynic
12, July 2014 3:51 pm

Nobody cares- @NOBODY CARES. Once a discussion edges into ad hominems and SHOUTING it is finished.

tryme
Reply to  Cynic
12, July 2014 11:44 pm

I think, Albert EH, that we can say ‘hello woodworker/Max’ to NC. The penny took a little longer to drop this time. All ‘3’ have the same style. It helps to know.

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