VB are reporting live from the Full Council meeting at County Hall.
For details of agenda items, check the agenda via the Isle of Wight council’s (IWC) website (links to all papers at the bottom of this article).
We will endeavour to report presentations and discussions as accurately as possible. Text surrounded by () signifies VB’s comments.
Please refresh / reload your browser to see the latest updates. [18.00] Everyone on their feet. Quite an electric feeling in the air. Cllr David Pugh’s just been around saying his hellos. Chairman’s now in.
[18.06] Update 2
Prayers were substantial – covering New Zealand, Democracy in Arabian countries, Mutual respect between councillors and those losing their jobs
Declaration of interest (won’t detail)
Cllr Knowles leaving the chamber as he said he received a complaint last year and feels that he cannot represent his voters.
Cllr Joyce + Cllr Barry saying Cllr Pugh should be declaring a personal + prejudice about this partner working for the Council
Cllr Pugh had declared an interest just before that, but not prejudicial
[18.18] Update 3
Cllr Lumley – asking for a way to have Cllr Knowles back in to the chamber
Going to adjourn for 5 mins while Monitoring Office gives Cllr Knowles advice.
Cllr Pugh – saying we should proceed with the meeting – people should have taken advice in advance.
Chairman refused, still breaking.
(Lots of shouting from the gallery during that time)
[18.30] Update 4
Chairman is returning.
(BTW, he’d said before no audio recording of the meeting + no photos)
Cllr Knowles has returned to the Chamber.
(End of decorations)
Public Questions
Q: Bob Blezzard: 1964 Act quoted (insure no action) and ref Tim Coates meeting. (see full question at bottom in photo gallery)
Cllr Brown: I’m taking lots of steps (summary).
Q: Julia Hill: Floating bridge charges. (see full question at bottom in photo gallery)
Cllr Giles: See EE8
Julia Hill: The way it’s been done is undemocratic.
[18.40] Update 5
Q: Jill Wareham: To Cllr Pugh – isn’t it time you stood down? Let someone in who cares about the Island
Cllr Pugh: I’ve been elected for 4 years. I’m supportive of Island services. Cut in funding is partly due to Coalition government.
Q: So it’s not down to financial mismanagement?
Cllr Pugh: In the election we won seats, you didn’t.
Q: Doreen Britain: 9.1 11.5 Island conservative rules state that all councillors must vote as the Leader says.
Cllr Pugh: It doesn’t say that.
Q: 9.1 says they should vote with the conscience – I would ask them to do that.
Q Stephen Goodman: can I ask for the future of the young people to be strongly borne in mind.
Cllr Pugh: We will seek to invest in the future of Islanders
Q: Request that some money be used to create jobs, not destroy them
Q: Jackie Hawkins: Clarification Cllr Pugh said the councils Govern – shouldn’t they be representing?
Cllr Pugh: My title I think it says Governance. Might have been a slip of the tongue.
Q: Mrs Attrill: Why are specialist health teams being put into mixed teams?
Cllr Mazillius: Our working with the health service is detailed and ongoing.
Mrs Attrill: Teams are being merged.
Cllr Mazillius: They’re not.
End of public questions
__Chairman explaining all of the events he’s been at.
Including citizens ceremony in Chairman’s chambers – went very well.
Private Grundy’s name wasn’t ever put on a shrine (he was blown up in Ireland). I offered to pay for it. Wight Stonemasons later wrote to say they wouldn’t be charging. Grundy family wrote to thank
[18.55] Update 6
Section 5 – council tax voting
Cllr Welsford: Request for named note – nearly all opposition stood … And a number of Conservative then did too (in quick time), inc Cllr Giles.
(30 min max rules for proposals)
–Cllr Pugh on item 5(b)
We are doing this with reluctance. Critics make us out to be pleased to do this. Concessionary fares show that we do good things for the Island. We’re catching up on years of neglect. We remain committed to investing significantly in public services.
Front loading has caused us a lot of problems. Front line reductions – caused lots of questions.
[19.05] Update 7
Saving of £6.479m sharing chief exec and reducing senior officers. Bring a reduced level of service.
Middle managers will need to take on more work, or reduce salary, or both. Team spread thin – could lead to errors.
Proposing to take on Independent idea of reduced mileage allowance – £88k savings. Adult Social care is one of the largest areas of spend. The suggestion by Cllr Lumley with the use of reserves is irresponsible.
Better to take tough choices and cut. Looking at proposed changes. 17 Feb Gov announced money for new houses. Total of £490k, ongoing.
Suggest using £367k for things public have asked for during consultations. Rest £120k apportioned later.
Libraries
Tim Coates meeting was helpful. Mr Coates proposed a higher level of cuts. Six libraries long term commitment. Five libraries by volunteers including new areas.
[19.14] Update 8
New – adding £50k for computers. Should be able to put up the numbers of hours doable.
I stress – tonight is about budget, not opening hours
Ours is the only proposal to ‘move libraries forward’ – as Mr Coates would like.
Toilets
Acknowledge problems with background doc. Saving in demo services will pay for toilets.
Others
Ryde – Waterside pool – Reduced level of saving while we hand it over – democratise services will be cut to give savings.
£25k for Lifeguard provision (we understand that this will be for training and not provision).
Floating bridge foot passengers – money from New Home government grant + mileage allowance.
Thanks for Independent proposal – welcome their budget – we’re planning on including community bus services + mileage allowance
Unison have complained saying mileage allowance is changing T+Cs. We don’t agree.
[19.23] Update 9
0% council tax increase
This is not the final say on the budget – and a mid-year review. On going discussions with opposition + public
First + seconded
(Cllr Pugh requested and got a Recess to look at the figures ‘as member only just saw the as they walked into the chamber’. 15 minutes granted)
*Just heard from an Independent that they had pulled their £88k mileage allowance proposal after Unison complained about. They suggested that Cllr Pugh couldn’t have read their amendment*
*Quick look in the public rooms – only 10 left in cabinet room 1 + 10-12 is the gallery – looks like interruptions many have waned their interest*
[19.50] Update 10
*Wow – speaking to David Pugh in the corridors, he apologised for not mentioning VentnorBlog when speaking about Tim Coates coming into the council – said he would when summing up. A unique event I suggested *
*chairman back in*
*We’re off again*
__Cllr Churchman
Councils have no money, just what is given to them by the citizens, so we should listen to them. A budget is a framework.
Audit commission warning last year. Our council appears to have buried their head in the sand over the previous year. Where there’s a will there’s a way. More saving needed next year. We have demonstrated that many cuts can be avoided. We have reinstated all the libraries.
If we lose them, we will never get them back. Reinstated a lot of things, including the small repairs service – better than large fixes.
Resident parking permit for £150 – local businesses need this (applause)
[19.58] Update 11
We support some of the proposed cuts – sharing chief exec, Ventnor fire station, etc
–Seconded
__Cllr Joyce (see image in the gallery at the bottom)
Cllr Pugh is in a hurry. He hasn’t forgotten his manners – women, children and the elderly come first, for cuts. Officers should be proposing saving, but their saving their jobs. It’s a pity that officers haven’t thought of these cuts earlier.
“Son, you’ve got to remember that over night, chicken salad can turn into chicken sh*t over night”
(Huge laughter and applause from public)
[20.00] Update 12
Cllr Whittle – parking. Close to heart. £1m loss of earnings when permits went and an assumption that people would pay more for car parks. This has proven to be so wrong. The Island needs a £150 parking permit.
Cllr Downer: Many of these proposed cuts are needed.
Cllr Lumley: Cuts of social services and youth services are big concern, which Independent budget doesn’t address, but on the whole I think they’re good to work with – they listen.
Cllr Humby: Ask leader to please reconsider the opening hours of the Sandown library. Deserves a five day opening. Thank you to the library staff – can’t be easy to ask to train volunteers.
Cllr Fuller: Consultation concerned me. Residents don’t want to see their library service closed.
Independents want to save the women’s refuge. Want to boost reserves by £500k.
Cllr Giles: Current year likely to have an increase of £400k in parking income. Less than we’d hoped for, but still an increase.
Cllr Whittle: Other authorities are offering ‘first hour free’ and finding that parking fees have gone up.
Cllr Giles is in denial.
[20.25] Update 13
Cllr Brown: Respect to Cllr Churchman – this is a serious matter, so I won’t stoop to play to the gallery (woo from the public).
Back office savings of Independent budget might be a step too far. Quality might suffer.
Using up £490k New Home Loans is a gamble – *the money isn’t certain yet*
*people calling out from the gallery – Cllr Brown just said, ‘Chairman do you wish me to continue’, so the Chair then asks the public not to interrupt. Smart move*
Cllr Howe: Libraries are important. Keep them going for another year at least. Even Hitler didn’t even get to close any of the libraries on the Island. School children need them, especially in rural areas, where they have to et home after school.
Cllr Welsford: When I first looked at this, I could see no alternative – but now I know there are. We’re saying that we need more time
Tim Coates has proven that there are alternatives we should be looking at.
Cllr Pugh asked a huge number of questions after our budget submission – which we have answered.
You have a chance to do something remarkable tonight – I hope the ruling councillors take the opportunities.
Cllr Pugh: Need to be clear at the impact in capital cuts proposed by the Independent budget. Staff salary cuts from 5% to 10% proposed by Independents worry me.
Will the Independents climb down on pay cuts when unions complain as they did with mileage allowance.
Cllr Bacon: This Independent budget gives us an alternative. If the ruling parts is uncomfortable with cuts, as has been said, we present a choice for them.
Every corner of the Island objected to the Cons proposals. There are some alternatives – not as has been said by Conservatives. The ability to now save money internally, raises the question, why hasn’t this happened before. Almost everything proposed up until now has been rushed by the ruling parts.
Almost everything proposed up until now has been rushed by the ruling parts.
If the leaders proposals are voted through, it’s clear that you are happy with barbaric cuts.
Willing enthusiasts. I urge you to support the Independent budget
(Lots and long applause from Public)
[20.55] Update 14
Cllr Mazillius: Want to thank the members of the public in the gallery for being relatively quite. This is an unprecedented situation
We’ve been thorough and detailed. Tribute to Indis for budget. Cons have worked tirelessly since Comprehensive Spending review.
Barbaric was used against us – that cannot be applied to our proposals
“‹*Coming up for 9pm – need to get officially extended*
*voted – Yes*
Cllr Dyer: I’m an Independent. I would not just tie the party lines. Encourage Cons member to vote with the conscience.
Cllr Hollis: Many people have said to me they support what we’re doing, including a Labour party member.
(‘where are they’ called from gallery)
Cllr Pugh: Nothing more to add. I don’t support it.
Vote for Independent Budget amendment
14 for
20 against
3 abst
[21.20] Update 15
LibDem budget amendment
Cllr Barry: Big concerns over PFI. Building up problems for the future
(Missed a lot of that – sorry. Computer problems. Details published on VB already)
Cllr Giles: Based on misunderstanding. The Island road haven’t been neglected over the last five years.
Cllr Pugh: Lib Dems did start the idea of PFI. We are at the final stages of consultation for DfT.
Cllr Churchman: We (Island) are depending on the PFI coming off. It needs to happen.
Cllr Ward: We’ve had to wait on the Government of both colours for this.
Cllr Welsford: I’m going to support this – more than anything to give the ruling councillors a chance to reconsider their last vote (the Lib Dem is an amendment on Independent budget)
Cllr Sutton: I’m appalled. Two other authorities are competing against us on this for the same money. We can’t hang around.
Cllr Knowles: We’re appalled by you Mr Sutton.
PFI Jay Jayasundara made a big play of how the PFI is being reduced due to money cuts. Strikes me the roads won’t be repaired properly and the Island will be paying it for decades.
Cllr Mazillius: Everyone regards our PFI bid as exemplary
(Cllr Mazillius is warbling on – many people shifting around)
Cllr Dyer: I’m so pleased I’m an independent. Fed up of listening to this ‘he said, she said’.
Cllr Bacon: I had a few reservations of this proposal, but having listened to the other side, I’m now going to vote to support it.
Cllr Barry: I don’t want to scrap the PFI. Let’s make sure we can afford it in future generations. We really ought to look at this PFI.
When PFI coming in, the payments will have to be paid before anything else on the council.
[21.45] Update 16
Vote for Liberal Democrat proposal
10 For.
23 Against.
4 Abstained.
Labour budget
Cllr Lumley: Cons proposals were originated by the Chief officers, but Cons took them on board. We’re in such a mess over the last few years, Reserves: At times like this, dipping £500k into reserves isn’t an issue. £2.3m towards social services cuts and youth services. If you’d listened to me, you’d have £17m in reserves, not £7m as you have now. Don’t understand why we have to subsidise harbours.
Cllr Pugh sent me and the other parties 53 question, with a harping tone, as if our proposals are not deliverable. I didn’t answer them, the Indis did.
It feels like the Cons have a Cavalier attitude. Did you really get elected here to make these big cuts? Just this once I ask you to vote with you conscience.
*Vote to extend another hour has just been made*
Front line services will start crumbling. Please, let’s avoid this. Perhaps some Cons will vote for me – not get their arm shot off.
Cllr Jones-Evans: Audit committee recommendation of last night. Reserves can only be spent once.
Cllr Bacon: Cllr Pugh, Cllr Lumley is offering a difference. By the Conservatives continuing to block, they are showing that they want to cut public services.
Also, Cllr Mazillus, I looked up ‘Barbaric‘ – I’m quite happy with my use of the word.
*Cllr Whittle + Cllr Churchman – said they can’t support due to use of reserves*
Cllr Welsford – Use of reserves do worry me, but what else are they for, except for use in bad times?
Lifeguards – 31 rescues on the Island a year. Lifeguards deserve the £100k. It’s a drop in the ocean.
[22:15] Update 17
Vote
*Cllr Stephens is chair! Of course*
“You’ve just failed this Island” from the gallery
*Cllr Richards not present *
9 For.
4 Abstained.
23 Against.
Waterside pool amendment
Cllr Knowles proposed it.
Cllr Whittle: Extending other existing facilities doesn’t made sense. In a recession, most people cancel with gym membership before most other things.
Cllr Brown: If we’d been able to identify £150k saving at other leisure facilities, we would have done already.
There will be a time that there will only be one pool open on the Island during the works to the other.
Existing facilities are life expired.
Cllr Barry: I really thought this was the one thing that we could agree one. Just asking for a breathing space. You’re on a destruction path on everything that has been built up over the years.
Cllr Fuller: TIC are going to private business. There’s plenty of private gyms on the Island. Why is the IWC trying to expand this side of the council?
Cllr Churchman: Agree with Wayne Whittle, gym memberships go first in a recession. People on the Island can go for a walk or run around the Island, but one thing they can’t do, particularly in the Winter, is swim, so it’s mad to close a pool. Gym use is for such a limited number of people.
Westridge – squash courts have been improved for Island games.
Cllr Pugh: In our budget we have a proposal to keep Waterside kept open. As a local authority we should make gym available at much for affordable rate. Proposals by opposition would cut money in leisure facilities.
Cllr Welsford: ‘A duty to provide affordable gym facilities?’ I can’t understand how Cllr Pugh can say that. Surely libraries are more important?
It’s not true we want to run down leisure facilities from Independents. We have £1.8m in there.
[22:45] Update 18
Cllr Gary Taylor: Lots of correspondence supporting the pool, but I’ll be voting against this motion.
Vote
13 For.
19 Against.
2 Abs (Cllr White + Peacey Wilcox)
Named vote details here [23.18] Update 19
Conservative budget
Vote
19 For
11 Against
2 Abstained (Cllr White + Peacey Wilcox)
**END**
Paperwork
If you want to keep up with what’s being discussed and voted upon, all the papers and appendices are available in the following links.
Conservative proposal: Revised recommendations
Conservative proposal: Schedule of savings
Click on images for larger versions – image 3/4 are speech made by Cllr Joyce
