With the near-complete-U-turn the Conservative Government did yesterday (Monday) on the Truss/Kwarteng budget of only weeks ago, News OnTheWight thought it might be worth revisiting Bob Seely’s appearance on the BBC’s Politics Live of last Thursday (13th October 2022).
Update: Read about Bob’s own apparent U-Turn several days later.
The programme was too long to go over the whole discussion, so we’ll just focus on the sections related to the budget, as it’s these where the mass U-turns have been completed.
Post-1922 Committee
At about 14 mins in, after some discussion on the 1922 Committee meeting – widely reported nationally as a rough ride for Liz Truss – Bob attempted to play it down, saying, “It was a bit flat, but it was OK – I was there for the first 20 minutes.”
The presenter, Jo Coburn, detailed that in the meeting MP Robert Halfon accused Liz Truss of trashing workers’ Conservatism and everything the party has done for the last ten year.
Jo Coburn said,
“That’s not just a bit flat is it?”
Seely: Politicians keeping promises
After a little while where Bob Seely said Liz was listening, he went on to say,
“I would say to my colleagues – Destabilising stuff now – I think we just have to take a reality check.
“One of my favourite poems was Rudywad Kiplings’ Is – you know, ‘When you can keep your head, when all around you are losing theirs’ – a great poem of Empire, talking about that – and I just think our colleagues have keep their heads a little bit and we’ve got to think about what’s happening in the medium and long term.
“We do not have an election coming up imminently, we just have to to get back to delivering on our agenda – Those are three things:
– Looking after people this winter with the energy support package;
– Politicians keeping promises, so reversing the rise in corporate and national insurance tax and;
– thirdly going for growth“And even the IMF, which has not been a friend to this Government, says 4 per cent growth over two years, the second of which you got countries like Germany going into recession – and with great respect, I ask my colleagues, that is a Conservative agenda that we need to unite around.”
Coburn: Are you being sensible supporting Liz Truss?
Jo Coburn:
“Do you think they are losing their heads? – and you and others that support Liz Truss and Kwarsi Kwarteng are being sensible?
Seely:
“I want to be a team player and I think all of us need to remember we’re team players. I did not support Liz at the beginning of the campaign, I supported Penny and I rolled in very strongly behind Penny – I wish Penny had made it through she would have been a great Prime Minister – BUT she didn’t make it and we now have an obligation to respect the results.”
The conversation then went to Daisy Cooper of the Lib Dems who spoke for a while, saying there should be an election after the Conservatives ‘fix the mess’.
Seely, No to U-turn on tax cuts
Jo Coburn:
“OK, let’s look at the ideas for fixing the mess, as Daisy calls it.
“Bob, one of them is to U-turn and reverse the tax cuts that were announced in that mini budget – £45bn of tax cuts, £43bn now because they dropped and U-turned on the 45 per cent tax rate policy.
“Should there be a delay to the cut in the basic rate of income tax to 2024?”
Seely:
“Our borrowing ratios are very low – compared to almost any other G7 country ..”
The presenter, clearly getting frustrated, “Hang on a sec Bob, I’ve given you a lot of time …”
Seely:
“Then the answer is No.”
Seely: We promised not to raise corporation tax
Presenter: “Should there be a staggered increase in corporation tax?”
Seely replied,
“I think the Government needs to stick to its agenda and move on it. I am not an economist sitting in the Treasury, but no – I trust Kwasi. I trust Liz. We need to stick to our agenda. We need to make sure our colleagues are on side. But I think it’s really important that politicians keep their promises – and we promised not to raise corporation tax – we shouldn’t be doing so, we promised not to raise …”
Presenter (interrupting):
“Even if Government borrowing is soaring. Inflation is still running at just over 9.9 per cent. The Bank of England has increased interest rates – yes there are global pressures too – but even Kwasi Kwarteng and Liz Truss said they should have laid the ground better.
Seely, speaking over, “For sure” (repeated a number of times over the next section)
“James Cleverly has admitted that the market turmoil has come as a result in part of that mini budget.
“You still want to stick with the measures that have caused this turmoil.
“If you borrow to fund tax cuts and you cannot say how they’ll be paid for, then the markets have made a judgement.
“And Liz Truss said very clearly yesterday, we are not going to balance the books by cutting spending. So I ask you again – will you balance the books by reversing the tax cuts?”
Reverse tax cut to balance the books? Seely: I don’t think we should”
Seely:
“I don’t think we should – and I think Kwasi, on the 31st of October, will lay out the plans of how that is going to be achieved.”
“But everyone in the Conservative Party supports looking after folks this winter, keeping our promises and developing growth in the economy.
Presenter (clearly annoyed/frustrated):
“You’ve said that. You’ve said that.”
A sting in the tail
As the programme ended (43:10) the presenter read out the following Tweet that had been published during the programme.
A former cabinet minister tells me:
”Brace for the mother of all U-turns on the mini budget today. A friendly person in the know is advising us to steer clear of the media today to avoid the explosion. We wouldn’t want to look silly by tomorrow.”
(Laugher from the other guests)
Presenter Jo Coburn:
“Bob? No words? Speechless?”.
Seely:
“Errr … We’ve got to swim together otherwise we’ll sink separately, so actually what we need to do is to stick together.”
Presenter:
“And if they raise corporation tax next year, which is what we’re hearing, will you support it?”
Seely:
“I’m going to support the Government.”
Presenter:
“Come what may?”
Seely:
“We should stick to our guns. We need to stick together and we need to support the Government.”
Watch the footage
You can watch Bob Seely on Politics Live via the BBC iPlayer.
Article edit
7.20pm 19th Oct 2022 – Link to 19th Oct article added
